SW2004 or SW2005 If you have a weld symbol that has a symbol & length/size on the top & bottom, and then modify it to remove the symbol, the length/size is still visible both in the definition & the drawing, but yet it can't be removed without putting a symbol back in. Seems to me that if you remove the symbol, leaving the length/size in the definition would be ok in case you wanted to reinstate it. However, it shouldn't show up in the drawing if it's grayed out in the definition. Also interesting is that you are not limited to putting "weld" symbols into the top & bottom symbol areas - you can put in centerline, flatness, etc - any symbol from the libraries. Guess it doesn't really hurt anything, just seems odd. WT