Wages....

Discussion in 'SolidWorks' started by Jake Barron, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. Jake Barron

    Jake Barron Guest

    I really hate to bring this up but Ill see if anybody starts taking pop
    shots at me. Im starting to get some offers for contract work. Mainly taking
    drawings off paper napkins, autocad, TIF, ect and building SWX models. A few
    of these offers seem to have some pretty big projects. Now I know for a fact
    that Im underpaid at work, but thats besides the point. I do get good
    benefits, bonuses, 401K, ect. But my ultimate goal is to work from home full
    time within a few years and I am just starting to network. I will be using a
    legal seat at my current employer after hours to do this extra work. After
    that, If I leave my job, I will have to purchase a legal seat for my Home
    Office. I want to make a fair wage, and I dont want it so high that I wont
    get the work. But on the other hand, I dont want to cut anybody elses
    livelihood off either because I underpriced them. You know what Im trying to
    say. Unfortunatly Uncle Sam will want his share off the top :( One firm
    would like me to give them a bid on the entire project. Thats kinda tough
    for me to do. This work will be done in Florida...Im sure there are wage
    differences throughout the country with us hillbillies being about the
    lowest. Thanks for any help you can provide. Sincerely, Jake Barron
     
    Jake Barron, Sep 12, 2003
    #1
  2. Jake Barron

    Colazi Guest

    Jake:
    I live in Oviedo and would be willing to help if you need.

    You need to look at yourself and decide what kind of money makes you
    happy.
    If you feel like the king of the world while at home working for 10
    bucks an hour then I think you will have a lot of work. If on the
    otherhand you price yourself at a level that makes you disgruntled, do
    not accept the work.
    When you work for yourself, allow yourself to be happy. Do not make
    excuses for your wage and do not appologize.

    Now that my soapbox is kicked out from under me, concider this.
    employers must match what you pay to social security. They must pay for
    benefits. there are other costs associated with your employment. with
    that all said, 35 to 40 /hour is not to pricey.

    You should try to get the person to pay you on the project. Just be
    sure that YOU define what you will do. If there are unknowns, push them
    back on them. Tell them exactly what you will do for XXX money. More
    likely than not, you will finish what you said you would and the project
    is not complete. Now you can ask for more money knowing exactly what
    needs to be done and make up your price then.

    HTH,
    Colazi
     
    Colazi, Sep 12, 2003
    #2
  3. Rough rule of thumb for "consulting" type work- take the hourly wage
    you'd be paid working in an equivalent full-time job in your area and
    double it and that's an indication of what you should be charging per
    your. Of course if you have special experience in some area,
    competition is light or intense, or you have to do a lot of learning
    you may have to/want to adjust things up or down. Consider what the
    shop rate is at your local garage, what a service call for your
    washing machine costs, etc.

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
    Spehro Pefhany, Sep 12, 2003
    #3
  4. Jake Barron

    Michael Guest

    I'd be REALLY careful about doing outside work at your current
    employers--that's a minefield you're walking into. It's not a good idea to
    try to mix consulting and a job in the same chair; there are just too many
    conflicts of interest.

    You might want to try working from home instead. Under the terms of the SW
    liscense, you may be authorized to put a legal copy of the program on your
    home machine....

    quoting from the liscense---"If the Software is permanently installed on the
    hard disk or other storage device of a computer (other than a network
    server) and one person uses that computer more than 80% of the time it is in
    use, then that person may also use the Software on a portable or home
    computer."
     
    Michael, Sep 12, 2003
    #4
  5. Jake Barron

    Chris Dubea Guest

    Just for talking purposes, a good rule of thumb for you to be able to
    take home what you do now as a regular paid employee is to charge
    twice your hourly wage. IOW if you make $10 an hour, then charge $20
    an hour. Don't forget about an Errors and Omissions insurance policy.
    That will cost you about $15K for $1M worth of coverage with a $10K
    deductible. A lot of clientèle require it and I wouldn't do
    consulting business without it. It will minimize the chance of losing
    everything you own if something turns sour. Let's face it things
    happen that are beyond our control that can severely impact your
    project. Some insurance companies will allow you to bootstrap this
    onto your existing homeowners policy. As them about a personal
    unlimited liability policy. It will cost you about $500 for $1M worth
    of coverage. Some insurers excluded engineering development, some
    don't. Unfortunately mine did so this wasn't available to me.

    Do yourself a BIG favor and look up your local SCORE office (Service
    Corp of Retired Executives). They provide free counseling and
    information for people like yourself to maximize your chances of
    success. They will be able to give you great insight into all the
    legalities involved in what you are attempting to do. Do your
    homework first, BEFORE you walk out on your current employer.

    E-mail me off line if you want more information.

    Chris

    P.S. You WILL need an accountant. Consider it the cost of doing
    business. You don't necessarily have to incorporate, but I would.
     
    Chris Dubea, Sep 12, 2003
    #5
  6. Jake Barron

    Chris Dubea Guest

    Having done this in the past, I would NEVER do development work on a
    lump sum basis. The process you describe will most certainly create a
    great deal of tension between you and the customer. Been there, done
    that, got the scar tissue.

    I know a lot of customers blanch at the idea of a blank check, but
    there are a world of unknowns waiting to bite you on the backside in
    development projects. Unless you have done projects almost identical
    to the one you propose, then you are making a wild guess to the time
    it will take to complete the work. Some you will win, some you will
    lose. Unfortunately it doesn't take many losers to bankrupt you. One
    loser will eat up the profit from 5 winners if you get my drift.

    Good luck,

    Chris
     
    Chris Dubea, Sep 12, 2003
    #6
  7. Jake Barron

    Sporkman Guest

    Not to necessarily disagree with Chris Dubea, but I think a couple
    caveats are in order to exand on what he wrote:

    1) If you are working full time on your own AND you have no trouble at
    all staying busy ALL the time, then you could add around $8 or $10 per
    hour to the rate you're earning as an employee and consider that is
    pretty much an equivalent. Differs by area and also by how much health
    insurance costs are for you (and your family). A decent health
    insurance plan for a family now will cost you around $1000 per month --
    and you can count on the premiums going up substantially next year (will
    be 100% deductible next year, however). If you don't have a well
    established network of businesses which are doing well, and you're
    having to drum up work for yourself, you can pretty much count on
    spending half your time (or even more) GETTING work and the other half
    DOING the work. In that case doubling your hourly rate would be more
    like an equivalent to your salary. But consider that the higher you
    charge the less business you'll be likely to get, unless you just happen
    to be lucky, or extremely good at sales, or have a good network with a
    good reputation in an area rife with business.

    2) E&O insurance is more often necessary with structural work or machine
    design where you may put others at risk by making mistakes. Although
    it's true that some companies will require E&O insurance in order to
    business with them, typically you don't need it and companies won't
    require it if you're basically just contracting. Unless you're handling
    entire projects you seldom will be asked about it.

    3) If you DO get into handling entire projects don't make the mistake of
    HIRING people as employees unless you absolutely must. The expenditure
    in time and red tape and other insurance coverage (workmen's comp and
    unemployment insurance mandatory, just as a start) will not make it
    worthwhile. If you have to subcontract work with zero profit from other
    contractor's efforts (because their rates match your own) in order to
    get business then consider it well worth the cost.

    Best regards,
    'Sporky'
     
    Sporkman, Sep 13, 2003
    #7
  8. Even more fuel to the fire, and I'll get to the bottom line first:

    The economy has been very poor, it's been a buyer's market, but it is
    getting better (the advantage will shift to the seller soon I hope). I have
    found that under these conditions it has been difficult to charge more than
    what contracting houses are charging. In this area (Upstate SC) SolidWorks
    designers are going for as little as $18/hr up to $28/hr, but not much more
    for *_designers_*. Design Engineer contract positions are hard to find, but
    they command more. But the contract house still has to take their cut.
    Price yourself accordingly until the economy picks up, and that'll get you
    the jobs.

    I've read several "how to be a consultant" books and they all pretty much
    describe a spreadsheet method of calculating your required hourly rate.
    Total expenses must be covered by some hourly rate times the number of
    available hours you can actually bill somebody versus marketing time,
    downtime, admin time, potty-break time, take your wife out to dinner before
    she divorces you time. Like Spork said, you'll probably spend a bunch of
    hours soliciting business. Can you generate enough revenue doing SW design
    work to cover your expenses? Run the numbers and estimate it to see. When
    I started this game, my calculated required rate scared everybody off
    because it was way too high compared to the market. I have since developed
    a graduated scale based on what it is that I do. I charge different rates
    for designer work, programming work, and actual "I'm responsible for the
    numbers" engineering work goes for the outrageous rate...but it's typically
    only 5%-15% of any project. It helps that I have the BSME+Master's + PE
    license, so some companies look at that as a legitimacy and value thing.
    With SW, the grunt work (drawings) is highly automated anyway.

    The jewel of this game is getting the long term contracts so the marketing
    time is minimized and the revenue-generating time is maximized. It all
    depends on your reputation, your background, and controlling your expenses.

    Moe
     
    Moe_Larry_Curly, Sep 13, 2003
    #8
  9. Jake Barron

    Jake Barron Guest

    Thanks for all the good advice and hints. Ive gotten so many different
    stories and rates from so many people by word of mouth, Im not sure what to
    do. It is all side money, but that also means I have to watch taking on the
    bigger projects since the customer wants their work on time...and lately Ive
    been doing alot of overtime from my employer.......We will see what happens
    I guess. Il probably just go to my existing wages plus a percentage to cover
    expenses. But the hard part is, when Im working for my current employer at
    home, I am earning 1 1/2 times regular pay. So who wants to sit there and do
    extra stuff for $25-$28 when I can make alot more with the overtime. But you
    never know when that will come to an end either. So...thanks for all the
    help and suggestions :) Jake Barron
     
    Jake Barron, Sep 13, 2003
    #9
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