Help please. In LT2000 -pkfstgroup makes an unnamed group from the objects selected on screen. -qkungroup removes the top level of grouping from objects selected on screen. What are the equivalent commands in Autocad 2004 ? The buttons I use for calling these commands in LT ( 98 and 2000 have the same icon but different macros ) do not seem to be available in " grown up " AutoCAD :-( -- Jonathan Barnes's theorem; for every foolproof device there is a fool greater than the proof. To reply remove AT