SW Stability Nightmares

Hi,

The problem that I am having is that SW is crashing on only some of
themachines that we have in the office, they are all the same spec and were
bought at the same time. Typically the crashes are occuring when trying to
change configurations and/or hitting the save button.

I have a 2 year old P4 with the same graphics card as the other users
(Nvidia Quadro fx500) and rarely crash, particularly in the same way that
the other users do. To make matters worse one of the other users is a whiner
and hides behind SW crashes as a reason his work is always late or passed to
someone else. The managers here do nothing about it, but that's besides the
point.

I tried the VAR route and all I got was a recommendation to turn off screen
savers, defrag the hard drive etc. I also tried turning off hardware
acceleration, installing new drivers etc to no avail.

I am at my wits end trying to figure out why my PC and an old p3 work fine
but a 6 month old P4 runs like crap. I am wondering if I should be going the
workstation route say a la Dell or HP, can anyone recommend something?

 

http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Reinstall_Tip.htm
http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Hardware Recommendations.htm
http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Backup_files_FAQ.htm
http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Computer_Maintenance.htm
http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Troubleshooting_a_Crash_Prone_System.htm

Try some of those options and see what you get.

Maintenance is important in keeping a computer stable. But also the problem
maybe the user... as you have already pointed out. Is the user a click happy
person? If so, have him slow his clicks down. I have seen click happy people
have more crashes then someone that is willing to wait a few more seconds.

Regards,
Scott

 

What kind of permissions do the users have ? Are they allowed full access ?

90% of all SW crashes are caused by video problems. Are the video "drivers"
the same ?? With Nvidia, newer is seldom better with regards to SW. I use
43.51 with single monitor systems, and 53.03 with duals. I see on the SW
site that the tested and approved drivers for your cards are 44.03 and
53.03. Are you using one of these, or whatever came on the CD ? If you are
using all approved drivers, are they all configured the same

As far as disk fragmentation, the page file is the only fragmented file that
can cause crashing. We use Win2000, and a fresh system, with all the SP's
applied "ALLWAYS" has a framented page file. It becomes even more so after
it's adjusted to the proper 2x physical memory. This can (and will) cause SW
to crash. There are two ways to fix it. One is to move it to a different
partition, defragment the partition where it was, and move it back. If you
only have one partition, you need to use a defrag utillity that will defrag
the page file, like Norton Speed Disk. Don't use the defrag that comes with
windows. It's totally usless, and doesn't really work. Allways set the page
file to a fixed value. Allowing it to adjust itself between min-max values
causes fragmentation.

The problem might also be some marginal memory sticks. SW uses tons of
physical memory. The objects (solid models) being shuffled around are
incredibly complex. One little hiccup can cause the whole thing to collapse.
Try moving the memory sticks from a machine that crashes, to one that
doesn't. If the problem follows the parts, you've found your problem....
"apples and apples" shouldn't be assumed. Sometimes one'll have a worm in it
that you can't see.

Regards

Mark

 

I'll add two possibilities, beside the other helpful mentions, which I
know have been related to crashes in the past... a faulty mouse or
keyboard... and they're usually inexpensive and easy to replace, or
exchange the device(s) with your good ones to test or rule out them
being the source of the crashes.

It's most likely a faulty graphics card but for kicks, since you have
the same graphics card as he does, just swap them and see if that's the
problem?

Or, for a real control, just swap computers (since they are the same) to
remove all the excuses from him!

...

 

<SNIP>

Guys thanks for the tips, it gives me some other options I hadn't tried.

And yes, this guy an Autocad clicker with the mouse.

 

Clean out each users temp directory.

If that doesn't fix it and some more radical action is indicated:

First try repairing the installation with Add/Remove Software.

When you get this kind of thing, one of the first things to try is to
delete the SW folder in LOCAL_USER in the registry. Don't try this if
you don't know what you are doing.

You might also run SiSoft Sandra on each machine and see if it picks
up on anything.

If on XP you can also try rolling back to when it did work.

....snip

 

....But also the problem

I have watched impatient users repeatedly crash software (not only
SWX) because they wouldn't wait for the computer to finish it's
current task.

You should never be clicking ahead when the hourglass indicates that
the program is finishing a task. If you click a button more than once
without a response -- WAIT. If not, then you should expect it to
crash, even though many times it won't.

I realize that there are some softwares out there that allow this, but
SWX ain't one of them.

This type of behavior is something that it very difficult to test in a
lab and so is not tolerated very well.

FWIW,

Todd

 

We have three identical machines for the three designers here. We are all
working on the same project right now and often work on the same parts.
Crashes come and go. Sometimes one of us will go weeks without a crash. A
few days later the same person will crash four or five times in an hour. The
variation seems to be mostly tied to the parts or assemblies we are working
on, but the pattern isn't at all obvious. Crashing seems to be more likely
when we are using a lot of memory (1 to 2 GB), but we sometimes crash when
we are only using about 0.5 GB. Crashing seems to be more likely when we've
been running for a long time, but we sometimes crash right after a reboot.
Parts with errors seem to be the most likely to crash.

One of us has been using the 3 GB switch for several weeks now and it
doesn't seem to have any effect on crashes. (It allows him to get up to 2 GB
or more of virtual memory used instead of the 1.3 to 1.5 or so for the other
two of us.) We've only got 1.5 GB of RAM on each machine, so it's possible
that putting 3 GB of RAM on his machine would help.

It does seem that one of us has less crashes than the other two, so there
may be something about his style of working that is less likely to cause
crashes, but it may have more to do with the particular parts that he has
worked more on.

We upgraded the guts of our systems, originally from XI, about a year ago
and didn't notice any change in crash rates compared to the previous two
years. We haven't gone to Dell or HP, but I haven't heard anything on the
news group that says they are any better.


Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear"

 

When SolidWorks reprinted that from the article I wrote, they asked and
included my name on it.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~mlombard/CrashProne.htm

matt

 

I included your name!

http://www.scottjbaugh.com/Tips_Tricks/Tips_Tricks.htm

 

I forgot to say that we went for the expensive Corsair RAM when we upgraded
and it didn't seem to make any difference compared to the much cheaper
Kingston RAM, either in speed or in crash susceptibility.

Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear"

 

Hi Scott!

Long time no speak... I only have one issue here...
"Click happy users" tend to be productive people. They are likely
trying to get work out. This requires them to "click things". Lately,
SldWks is crashing a lot on me. Many times it feels of "click death".
However, no matter what Corp. SldWks says, or you. I should _NEVER_ be
able to "click death" the software. This is a _PROBLEM_ that has for
many releases now gone unchecked. Don't begin to tell me I am "faster"
than my P4 computer. If SldWks can't process mouse clicks faster than
I can make them SldWks ain't written for shit...

Well... Somebody or lots of somebody's need to be shit-canned in the
development dept. Bottom line the software should be _hella_ faster
than I could ever be. The only thing that could prevent that from
being the case is a _PROBLEM_ in the software.

Why should we as users have to "wait a few more seconds" to do
something? The software should work _AT_LEAST_ as fast as I can click.
(Of course long regens etc, not to be considered here)

Bottome line, your "click happy" justification for "user problem" =
not acceptable. No if's, and's or but's about it...

Not trying to be a dick Scott. Your heart is in the right place, you
just have the bad position of trying to make excuses for software that
ain't for shit sometimes... Some days good people have to defend bad
things.

Regards,

Sean

 

Your complinats are valid and are in the right place, but all I'm trying to
do is help this user understand what can happen if his user is a click happy
person. If the Hourglass is up and your 3 steps ahead of SW... It crashes.
if you want to complain, take to SW and not to me. I don't care about your
complaints! That's not my department, again take that to SW or your VAR not
me! What have you done to help this user understand what a good solution is
in your post?

This user is looking for ways to help with his problem now, not 3 weeks,
months, or years from now. He has to have a solution today or ASAP. You have
not provided a solution here in your post. So if you want to complain take
it else where, because all I'm trying to do is help this user out with a
solution and not a negative response like yours.

This Forum spends to much time complaining about this, that, and the other.
When all, some users want, is to find an answer. When the subject line of a
post in this forum is relavent to complaint's, then GREAT complain to your
heart's desire I don't care. Hell maybe I'll join in if I agree, that's
fine. No need to bash someone for helping. That's unprofessional IMO.
Instead of being so negative and taking your issues out on me CALL SW &
COMPLAIN to them ASAP! don't point it at me or others out here. Some of us
are here to help whether you like it or not. Remember someday you might be
backed into a corner... and maybe I have the answer... then again maybe I
don't... then again.

Sorry I don't remember you Sean...?

Regards,
Scott

 

It's gonna be really tuff for me fix the problem in discussion w/o
posting "fixed source" that I don't have. Think about this _clearly_
what can a user _truly_ do to fix this? Other than just "work slower".
Working slower is not what my company had in mind when they shelled
out 5000.00 for click death. Take it to SldWks? WTF? I have to pay
more money, and then not get it fixed. That is bull-crap. This "click
death" should have never been released.

Bottom line "click death" is not a problem we should have. You also
can't fix it with some "suggestions". Granted vaild and good
suggestions, however, again this "click death" problem _WILL_REQUIRE_
a source fix. Seeing as we users have been living with it for a few
releases now, I don't see that fix forthcoming. I would help the user
in question if I could. However, telling him to do his job "slower"
might just not f'n be OK with the people that sign his check. So,
given that I find it better to call em like I see em.

Sean Fahringer
Newing-Hall Inc.

Also, this forum spends all this time complaining because the software
is all fuked up... Bottom line. Again, I strongly feel some ppl need
to be on the street in the Mgt. Dpt AND the code Dpt at SldWks.

Sorry for the response delay, I am burried. Oh, and no insult
intended, but you ppl ARE MY F'N VAR! I don't need to call you and
have you tell me "work slower". Of course, my company would have to
pay 1000+ annual for you to tell me "work slower" as well. That is
gonna be a tuff one getting by the guy that signs my check...

Regards,

Sean

 

The idea of this post was for him to either understand the problem or look
for a workaround. You provided neither you just contniue to complain there
is nothing I can do to fix the problem... I didn't write the code nor hence
i can't do anything about it! If you don't like it then call SW and complain
directly to them. I can't help you and obviously you can't help the
gentlemen that asked for the help.

Can you fix the problem by complaining?... No you might get heard from SW
here but is that going to make them fix it... Probably not.

If you don't over click and do your job a little slower, then you won't lose
your work and be out "X" amount of time. I would rather work a "few seconds"
slower instead of losing a hours worth of work and having to redo it. That's
longer and slower than just waiting for SW to catch up. No I agree it should
be fixed, but what can we do??

If it's so Fcked up then why are you still using it?

See above - Loss an hour or work or work a few seconds slower... hmmm? Your
choice.

It's like this:

Two guys get in there cars one got up earlier then the other one. The one
that got up early got in his car and drives 55 MPH down the highway. The man
that got up late, gets in his car and drivers 80 MPH down the Highway. He
eventaully catches up with the man going 55 and passes him. Both guys are
driving in a 55 MPH zone. The guy driving 55 most likely will catch the 80
MPH man, at the next light, unless he runs the light. The guy doing 80 MPH
has a better chance of getting a ticket or having a bad wreck. The guy doing
55 left early enough to get to work on time. If the 80 MPH man gets a ticket
then the 55 MPH man will most likely pass him and still get to work faster
then the 80 MPH. If the 80MPH man has a car wreck (when either running the
red light or something else). The 55MPH man will still get to work faster
then him and will probably still have his life just where it was at when he
left the house that morning. Where as the 80 MPH man is either in a hospital
bed fighting for his life or in the morgue. Either way the 80 MPH losses the
race and the slower man wins in all respects.

Moral = Just because you drive fast doesn't mean that you don't take a
chance on having more problems then the man driving slower.

OT = Now which of you engineers out there want to solve this story problem?

The way SW is now with the mouse issue - If you over click you will most
likely lose your work if you haven't saved. If you don't like what I say you
don't have to agree... I don't care Sean! If you want it fixed pay your main
tenance, call me, complain, Record an AVI file, send it to me, I'll call SW,
we get you and SPR. Problem not completely solved, but getting closer. If
there is no workaround we can get it escalated through the Teritory Manager
and it would be out within one to two SP later. But since you haven't paid,
I can't help anymore than to give you advice from here. If you don't like my
advice you don't agree. If the person that posted this thread to begin with
does and takes my advice then problem solved. If you want to rant and rave
about this topic. Start a new and quit beating this dead dog!

 

I provided the truth. Bottom line, no "sugar coating", no B.S. no lame
ass workarounds. No excuses for poor software. Just the truth and the
way I feel about it.

Of course not they are too busy adding bugs, and instability the way
it sounds around here to me. WTF good is unstable software?

You forget how fast "a few seconds" on a constant daily grind will add
up. I don't loose much I save often. That is really all one can do.
You agree that it should be fixed? What have _YOU_ done in that
interest? Have _YOU_ contacted S/W in the interest of a "real fix"? I
doubt it... If you have _GREAT_ now tell me what they said/did. Oh
wait! Let me guess it is a "pending SPR" LMAO!


You better read my responses again, I don't feel this is being "taken
out on you". I feel you are trying to provide the same lame excuse
that S/W does regarding stability "work slower". There is no _FIX_ for
this problem in "work slower". See above about fix/workaround.
If I end up "backed in a corner" going to you to get a response like
"work slower" is not gonna be what I do. Paying 1000+ annual for just
that would turn my stomach.
Also are you a "forum cop" now? Don't flatter yourself into telling me
what to do and even think for a second that I would listen.

Well, that is easy, we paid 5000.00 for an unstable program. Now
because software will not be up for review / budget for 1 more year I
am stuck for now with instability. Bet your arse, S/W is a gone when
design software comes up for review.

So let me get this straight, if we pay maint, we will get this fixed?
Is
that what you are telling me? If so please _CONFIRM_ and I will see to
it that we buy maint. Or do you just mean you are going to get me a
worthless SPR? As there are soooo many SPR's and soo little time with
all the bugs, and instability needed to be created..

For the record, this "chain of events" you describe has likely been
followed by someone else. However, this problem remains, build after
build. Is that what we are supposed to pay maint for? Continued
instability and you telling me "work slower". Sorry, we will keep the
1000+ annual if that is what we will be getting for it.

Am I bitter, hell yes I am. We paid a lot of cash to be having
problems like "click death". It bothers me to see folks like yourself
"affiliated" come here and give some excuse, or cheap workaround for
what amounts to "gross" problems. I accept the fact that this is not
your fault I have even stated that.
However, think clearly about telling someone "work slower". Are we
likely to find "work slower" in any advertising campaigns from S/W?
Are they likely to sing the joy of working slower? Will they even
mention this gross error in programming?

I don't know/care what you think at this point Scott. As I am sure you
feel the same about me. However, you and everyone at S/W should just
start telling the truth. No sugar coating, no B.S. no "Let's get an
SPR going", just the facts, things are and have been f'd up for some
time now regarding stability. They will at the rate we are going
_never_ be fixed. Just be honest and say that, as that is _REALITY_!

Or is this that I have everything wrong? Click death being a _FEATURE_
and not a bug. That would explain why it remains build after build
after build "add infinum". However, if indeed it is a feature as it
seems, why not advertise it?

Something like....
Use SolidWorks so you can work slower, _OR_ work full speed and use
the "click death" feature to adjust your blood pressue and dispose of
unsaved work!

LMAO!

Regards,

Sean

 

"Mr NC":

I'm not here to defend either Scott or SW, but I do know that I have never
suffered from your mysterious "click death" after 7 years of using the
software. The only thing I can think of is that if your computer hangs and
you just start banging keys, and then it crashes, but that is a different
problem related to the hang. Whatever. I've posted a lot in the past on
unstable SW installations.

I don't know where the "click slower" obcession comes from, but the first
thing I'd do would be to make sure that the stability issue is taken care of.
I'd bet lunch it's installation or OS setup related.

If you choose to focus on what appears to be a very narrow and completely
preventable issue, well that's up to you. Maybe I'll see you at a user
convention for some perfect software which users can't f_ck up.

If this is a problem that SW can fix, then it doesn't matter to me if you're
paying subscrption or not, we would all benefit from having the fix. Can you
tell us exactly how you make it crash just by clicking too fast? What do you
click and how fast? What other software do you have running / installed? If
a few of us can duplicate your steps on different set ups, then I'll make
sure it gets submitted as a crash bug, which is a high priority for fix at
SW.

If we can't duplicate it, though, it sounds like you have a system issue.


matt

 

Matt,

I am sorry for the delay in response Matt. I am so friggen behind (not
the fault of S/W) that finding time for taking a crap is getting to be
a problem.

Its not just the click death. It is overall stabilty. I get click
death, CTD's, freeky features, etc. Or the wack-o "feature folders"
that would rock if they worked and didn't explode open all time.
Christ that just adds to the clutter as instead of having everyting in
one entry you have an additional entry now exploded open with
everything else not in a folder. This could go on far too long listing
things broken. I went down the road of "reinstall everything" many
times when we first brought this into production here. We have also
allready been thru the stupid questions, i.e. was Norton etc on when
installed? What programs do you have running? Add infinum...

I blew it off as "growing pains" in the begining. I was just happy to
have better software than what I did. That was then, this is now 2
years later. Pressure and demands on my time are killing me. I don't
have time to crash, restart S/W, do a few things over, day after day
after day.

I wish I knew then what I know now.

I remember S/W back in the 96-98+ timeframe. I remember the stabiltiy,
I don't remember crashing so much. It is clear from people around here
that know one hell of a lot more than me that there are stabilty and
quailty problems with the software post 2001+ probably before.
However, that is really the last release people speak of as dependable
as far as my searching and reading as shown.

Matt your offer to help thru submission of information to S/W since we
don't do the "pay for problems" affair gives me a warm feeling. At
least the users give a damn even if S/W doesn't. I couldn't let you do
it however, it I would feel it a waste of time. We are not on maint.
So even if it got fixed it wouldn't matter. We wouldn't get it as we
are not paying to get todays latest problems. Given the fact it is
clear that they are not even keeping many maint customers happy I
can't see the time from them to go back and fix problems in 2003.

Personally I think Scott is one of the best "heart in the right" place
people S/W has. I just don't like excuses, I can't use them with my
boss so why should I accept them. It brings me great pain to hear
things like "work slower" and "either live with crashing or work
slower". Nobody spends money on a product for that. Maint, wouldn't
that put me in a pickle. When something bad happens, I get behind on
prints, designs or whatever. If I was putting maint in my engineering
budget, then I would also be spending time trying to convince the boss
that I can spend money properly as he would be saying...

"
You are buying maint Sean, why are these problems not being taken care
of by S/W? What are they doing to help you? Is there an expected date
of resolution? How much time have you lost? Add infinum...
"

I still wear the S/W hat I got at a user meeting over a year ago,
everyday it just doesn't bring me the same level of pride it used to.
Ya, she _is_ my tool for now. But not forever.

For the offer of help, just as with Scott I am greatful. It is just
not something any of us can do much about at this point.

My very best regards,

Sean