Surface Tools... What's Really Needed

ICEM was recently mentioned. Although the person who mentioned ICEM did not
state what tools he liked these would be the tools I would like to see
because I feel that dynamic interation with curves and surfaces would
make a radically better CAD/CAM system.

http://www.icem.com/text.asp?PageId=17

"And with simultaneous real-time analysis, you can monitor reflection lines,
curvature, or deviation from reference data dynamically as you manipulate
surfaces. This approach results in unparalleled surface quality and enables
designers to converge on production quality surfaces in a fraction of the
time that other systems would require for the same task."

"Based on these techniques, ICEM Surf is the tool of choice in the
automotive, tool and die, and product design industries where aesthetic
design concepts must be implemented in harmony with product functionality.
ICEM Surf allows the designer to create and visualise ideas freely."

And of course my favorite quote:

"With ICEM Surf, product styling is no longer held hostage by its
engineering!"

:>)



jon

 

Anyone mentioned idiots lately?

 

Rather clearly you had reading comprehension issues yet again.
Have you considered taking up cooking as a better hobby?

OTOH That might be dangerous too. Reading cookbooks ..

 

ICEM was recently mentioned.

Much to (sense a collective wince?) everyone's dismay. Sorry folks.

Actually, the reference was made to indicate a general area of
functionality; shape definition and refinement. (No, I have never used
it.)

----------

How good is VX's documentation? Any holes in Help, need for tutorials,
need for ways around whatever the program's limits maybe, etc.? I was just
thinking that if 'someone' were to provide some it would probably be very
much appreciated by existing and prospective users alike.

=======

 

Their CAD documentation is good, as is their tutorials in the books. But
their CAM end needs some better doumentation IMHO.

 

But of course you continue the discussion ! :>) You can't get
this kind of discussion on the McNeel's newsgroup can ya ? LOL

Not as good as Rhino's. However, most tools are easy to use. Most NOT all.

Yes there are holes. Curve control needs a lot of help.

See above on curve control.

Any reason you have not made the effort to downloaded VX and posted
what you think needs work ?

jon

 

The CAD documentation and tutorials on curve control leave a hell of a lot
to be desired. Further, VX needs to open up their web board or support
an independant one. Both Rhino or Concepts support the idea of open beta
and open web boards. Why doesn't VX ? No good reason that I can think
of. : (

Besides curve control, I'm pretty happy except for some stuff that is broken
that I would prefer to not discuss here. I would discuss it here but I'm not
into giving "The Virus" or SolidWorks users who are product loyalists
any ammo until more SolidWorks users start getting more honest about
how SolidWorks fails at being a seamless hybrid modeler. VX blows
SolidWorks away in this area. VX surface and solid tools are truly
transparent.

Think3 called me on the phone today. I'm told that the subscription concept
is going away in favor of a standard "purchase". Price is very high.

jon

 

They don't want clueless yammerheads? Certainly not those that
don't know how to use .....

HTH

 

IOW He's totally clueless again.

More BS no doubt.

 

Yet in the next post he sez .... guess what?

[

Yes there are holes. Curve control needs a lot of help.
]

LOL .. What a bumbler!

 

They don't want clueless yammerheads?


No, I think that even clueless yammerheads are probably OK...

I think the key to getting on the VX official forum is that you actually
have to have bought the software.

--Mitch

 

Oh! Right through the heart!

 

We aim to please <G>.

 

Are you advocating buying a software package without learning it first
to see how it works and what it's pluses and minuses are ? Doesn't
your Uncle Bob strongly suggest try and learn before you buy ?

As we both know:

Bob's Your Uncle !

Does one have to purchase Rhino or Concepts to use their forums ? :>)

BTW, do you sell Rhino ?

Can you tell us what software package "The Virus" uses or has
used in the last ten years ? Since you and "The Virus" are perspective
buds I figured you could shed some light on this. ;>)

Have a nice day !

jon

 

Nope. But sooner or later you do have to decide to buy something, otherwise
it's just an exercise in futility.

Nope. They are among the enlightened ones. However it seems to be the
tendency with more expensive CAD/CAM that the mfr. sponsored forums are
reserved for the exclusive use of their purchasers. Personally, I don't
have a problem with having non-purchasers post, as long as there is some
general means of control to keep the spammers, OT-ers, nutcases, etc. off
the forum - for as a buyer of the program, coming to the forum for answers,
I don't want to be bothered with that crap.

Yep. For a little over one year now. Although in principle I am allowed to
sell in all of Europe, in practice, I only sell in Switzerland, and even
that pretty much only in French-speaking Switzerland. Selling also means
support, so I provide e-mail and telephone support to my clients if needed,
as well as the occasional training session.

The Rhino sales aspect of my business is pretty minor in terms of numbers -
pretty small market as you might imagine, only about 1 million people total
in French Switzerland - but the fun aspect of it is what counts. I started
it as a way to continue to put my support behind Rhino, as there was no
French-speaking rep here, and people kept calling me anyway with questions.
I don't really make any money at it, but I do have fun, and get to meet a
lot of design-type people, which sometimes even leads to modelmaking work...

--Mitch

 

They probably made the (bad in ths one case) assumption that
the "user" had a clue.

HTH

 

FWIW: McNeel made a fairly decent effort with their Rhino Level Two training
manual when it comes to explaining surface continuity, creating decent
curves and a bunch of other stuff.

This Level Two training manual is far better then anything I have ever seen
from any CAD/CAM vendor but it still leaves a lot to be desired / covered.

Does McNeel have any plans to offer a Level Three training manual with
Rhino 4 ?

Too bad that no one can post this manual but I guess McNeel wants
someone to buy Rhino to see it. While I can understand this, I do
think what is in the Level Two training manual would greatly benefit quite a
few people in both newsgroups


jon

 

Jon,
Where, EXACTLY, is this level two manual found ?? Is it a seperate
purchasable manual, on the CD or what ?

Thanks,
Chris L

 

Chris,

You get it when you buy Rhino. I believe it was first offered with Rhino V2
but I'm not a Rhino expert... other than knowing what I do and don't like
about it. As long as someone purchases Rhino they have access to it on CD
or with their serial number which allows one to download it from McNeel's
website.

IMO, the Rhino Level Two manual contains far, far better explainations of
what C2 curves and surfaces are and how to create, modify and check them
than have ever been discussed in either alt.machines.cnc /
comp.cad.saladworks. ;>)

A lot of what is in the Rhino Level Two training manual can be applied to
other CAD/CAM programs that offer NURB surfacing.

jon

 

You can actually buy the training manuals if you haven't purchased Rhino.
The cost is $50 each.

http://www2.rhino3d.com/sales/?Region=NA