Skeleton model

I would like to create a skeleton model as a base for an assembly. The
problem is that the Skeleton option in the create component box is greyed
out.
Does anyone know why this is? (I,m using Wildfire)
Thanx
Andrea

 

Maybe its your license.

 

I just used a skeleton model for the first time. What they are really good
for is that they do not appear in BOMs and do not effect the assembly in an
unhealthy way. Basically, you use the skeleton as a reference for all the
parts you are designing so that they are all coordinated in size, position,
clearances etc. I have tried the copy geometry function a few times
(pre-Wildfire ... so I don't know if it is improved) and it stinks. You
will have to do a little research but I think that there is no associativity
when you do this.

Alternatively, you can use datum planes and curves which you create as the
first features in your assembly (or as a separate reference part). This
method works well but can get confusing since these features are usually one
dimensional in nature. If you work at it I am sure you can simulate 3
dimensional curves somehow (I have done this by creating segments that are
flat and linking them together).

Another alternative is to build all of your parts in an assembly and they
will all have dependencies on one another. This works but creates weird
problems. For example:

Your assembly consists of 3 parts assembled in the following order 1, 2, 3.
Within these parts there is a relationship between feature 3 of part 3 to
feature 27 of part 1. When you change feature 2 of part 3 (which is a
parent of feature 27 in part 1) feature 3 of part 3 fails for no apparent
reason. Much cursing follows (the FCC will not allow me to use the words
that I would actually use in this instance so I will use a tried and true
simulation stolen from "Peanuts" comic strips) AAAAGH##$$&@@@!!!

How can this be when the part is further down the assembly tree? Simple the
parent child relationship does not work like the simple linear tree we all
know and love in individual parts. And the real treat is that if you want
to alter just one part you have to have all the parts available to debug any
problems you might run into. With a skeleton model you only change the
skeleton and everything else follows (actually, this is rare because you
usually forget something and ... you'll see the same problem from the
previous paragraph).

Here is something you might try (I haven't experimented with this myself bit
it should work):
1. Create a single "master" part with all the important building blocks as
solids (for example: to make an interface between two parts create a thin
feature equal to the clearance required with holes in it for the fasteners
location).
2. When this part is complete and you are satisfied with it save it as an
IGES wireframe.
3. Make this wireframe (not the part) the first part of your assembly and
reference everything off of it while building the parts in assembly mode.
The disadvantage is that it isn't really parametric but oh what fun you will
have.

If you can afford it I highly recommend getting the extensions that will
allow you to use the skeleton method. I believe that it can be bundled with
other useful things like surfacing (wonderful if it isn't abused),
pro-notebook (used with skeletons this is an even better method) and
sheetmetal for a "reasonable" price.

 

I must bow to a more experienced user in this arena.

However, there is one detail that must be mentioned and that is if you are
using any type of PDM software the master part method usually causes it to
freak. If you are not using a PDM system but your customer is (and you want
to exchange data) do a test first to make sure everything works before
spending too much time on this method. (I know of this unfortunate problem
due to personal experience with a subcontractor that used a master model ...
Intralink, my PDM software, doesn't handle the situation properly and if I
want to maintain this particular part ... well I haven't figured out how yet
and it's been three years and quite a few PTC phone calls since.)

 

Chris, I have Foundation Advantage which as far as I know is PTC's
bare-bones starting package these days. I purchased it in the last days of
R2001 as Foundation II. 'Pro Assembly Performance' option is part of it, and
so, of course, is the Copy Geometry functionality. I might be wrong, but to
my best knowledge this is the 'lowest end' Pro/E package one can buy these
days. Based on that, you might be able to get your license upgraded to
Foundation Advantage if not free, than for a nominal charge.
What I do not understand is how you lost this option with Wildfire: if you
had it, you must have had a package that at least corresponded to current
Foundation Advantage, if not exceeded it. You might want to review your old
package (the list of modules in your old license files) and compare it to
Foundation Advantage. It might very well be that PTC has 'downgraded' your
license either because some rep was out to make a commission on 'new' sales
or through sheer incompetence. You might have a case you can argue with
them.

 

<snip> is there a spot on the PTC web
: site that explicitly states which options are included in each of the
: packages, and what features/capabilities are included in each option?
:
began a thread on 3/18 on the topic of what's included in
different license packages. I replied with a link to the PTC website where they
give their spiel on Foundation Advantage and what's included. The interesting
thing to me, though, is that they talk in general terms about functionality, but
never mention modules. They never say, as does your license, that this package
includes..... followed by a list of modules. They keep it deliberately a big
mystery so they, or their sales reps, can play with it, goose it, stroke it, milk
it for all it's worth, and occasionally, reward the worthy with some bonus, 'free'
addons. Keeps you hooked up to the VARs and sales reps. Hmmm.... what is that I
smell? Oh, yeah, just more stinking scams. OOppps, I guess I've screwed my chances
of getting that Strategic Account Rep in Santa Clara, California.

David Janes

 

Chris, here is what my Foundation Advantage license file lists:

#PROE_3085046 1 Pro/ENGINEER Foundation Advantage (Found
Wildfire Lic 01-jan-0 2A225707

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
#START: License File for HOST ID ??-??-??-??-??-??
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------

#################### LOCKED License #####################
# Serviceable = Mechanism Design
# Serviceable = Pro/ENGINEER Foundation Advantage (Foundation II Wildfire
Upgrade)
# Feature Name = PROE_3085046
# Feature Version = 24.0
# Number of Copies = 0 (0 indicates locked licenses or modules)
# Expiration Date = 01-jan-0 (this license does not expire)
# Optional Modules = Pro/INTERFACE for CATIA
# Optional Modules = Pro/FEATURE
# Optional Modules = Pro/DETAIL
# Optional Modules = Pro/INTERFACE
# Optional Modules = WLO
# Optional Modules = Pro/SURFACE
# Optional Modules = Pro/PLOT
# Optional Modules = Pro/LIBRARYACCESS
# Optional Modules = Pro/ECAD
# Optional Modules = Pro/REPORT
# Optional Modules = Pro/CDT
# Optional Modules = Pro/DATA for PDGS
# Optional Modules = Pro/LEGACY
# Optional Modules = Pro/INTERFACE for STEP
# Optional Modules = Pro/WELDING
# Optional Modules = Pro/PHOTORENDER
# Optional Modules = Pro/WEB PUBLISH (> OR = 18.0)
# Optional Modules = Pro/SHEETMETAL-DESIGN
# Optional Modules = Pro/INTERFACE for CADDS 5
# Optional Modules = Mechanism Design License
# Optional Modules = 4DNavigator License
# Optional Modules = Import Data Doctor
# Optional Modules = Design Animation
# Optional Modules = ModelCHECK License
# Optional Modules = Pro/ASSY_PERFORMANCE

Now, I've never used Copy Geom or Shrinkwraps in R2001 or earlier, so I
don't exactly know what their full functionality is supposed to be. But I
have used Shrinkwrap a couple of times in Wildfire with this license (In
Assembly mode, 'File', 'Save A Copy', then select the Shrinkwrap from the
pulldown list of available file types). I have also used Copy Geom, which is
now under 'Insert', 'Shared Data', 'Copy Geometry from Other Model...'. So
most certainly one does not need an AAX for at least these two features.
I have checked on the PTC website and the Foundation Advantage is THE most
basic (read: bare-bones) Pro/E license available these days. It was also a
standard license PTC gave to former owners of Foundation II in the days of
R2001.
What does your license file say, Chris? If the modules I've listed are in
it, Shrinkwrap and Copy Geom should be available to you. Are the menu picks
I've listed simply not there or greyed out?

 

Chris,
I took the liberty and pasted our license files side-by-side.
Here is what I came up with.
The lines of plain text are the lines taken from your license; the lines
beginning with > # are the lines from mine.

Here goes:

Design_Animation

As you can see, you have more modules than I. My license does not include
Interactive Surface Design, Pro/Scan Tools, and Pro/Composite modules. One
module that I have and you don't is WLO. I have no idea what it is;
hopefully, somebody on this ng will be able to explain this abbreviation.
As I have said in my earlier post, my license is a Foundation Advantage, the
most basic license of Pro/E currently available. It most certainly does NOT
include AAX, but Copy Geometry and other picks that are greyed out in your
Wildfire under 'Insert', 'Shared Data', are all working in mine. And since
my license is not a result of an upgrade from a group of modules separately
purchased previously, but a STANDARD node-locked Pro/E Foundation Advantage
license, you can be sure that EVERY user who has Foundation Advantage has a
license that looks like mine and gives the same functionality. So whoever is
telling you that you need AAX for the stuff you are missing is either lying
or doesn't know what they are talking about.
Hope this helps in your negotiations with your rep.

 

Jeff, My WF date code is 2002490, rather old, but I've never had any reasons
to update it. My license is, of course, commercial, too. I use node-locked
license because I am a one-man company and therefore have no need to float
my licenses over the network to share them with anybody. A node-locked
license gives me an additional small benefit of avoiding an (admittedly very
low) overhead of FlexLM.
As I have said, I have no idea what the WLO module is. This information can
probably be found somewhere on the PTC website, but my maintenance contract
has expired 4 months ago, and with it my ability to access member areas of
PTC website. Sometime soon, probably when the WF2 comes out, I'll be
renewing my contract and will be able to research this issue. Until then,
somebody else will have to do it.
As soon as I open a part or create a new part in WF, the items in the
submenu under 'Insert'=>''Shared Data'=> become available. This submenu
contains 'From File', 'Publish Geometry', 'Copy Geometry from Other Model',
'Shrinkwrap from Other Model', 'Merge from Other Model', 'Cutout from Other
Model', 'Inheritance from Other Model'. Of these items, only 'Cutout from
Other Model' is greyed out. Of the available choices I personally have only
used 'Copy Geometry from Other Model' to create one-part copies of the
outside geometry of assemblies I've been designing jigs and fixtures for. So
I am pretty sure Copy Geometry works just fine, but cannot say whether the
rest are completely functional or are simply not greyed out. Maybe somebody
else on this NG who uses Foundation Advantage can expand on these other
functions.
In the assembly mode this same submenu contains 'From File', 'Copy
Geometry', 'Shrinkwrap', 'Publish Geometry', 'Copy Geometry from Other
Model', 'Shrinkwrap from Other Model'. Of these items, 'Copy Geometry' and
'Shrinkwrap' are greyed out, everything else is available.
Now bear in mind that in WF what is available and what is greyed out often
depends on what (if anything) is selected in the graphics area. All above
descriptions are for situations in which NOTHING has been selected yet. I
would not be surprised if some of my greyed-out items are this way because
Pro/E is waiting for me to select some geometry before it activates them.
The particular 'Copy Geometry from Other Model' in my case has always been
used in the same way: I would create an empty part using my template with
all necessary datum planes, layers, parameters, etc., but without any
geometry. Then I would copy the geometry from some assembly into this part,
creating a simpler, lighter representation of this assembly.

I hope this answers your question.