Another Viz Renderer thing. I've been using max since dos days, but viz renderer/acad2004 seems to be really screwed, or I'm really thick. Cast Shadows checked, Render shadows Checked. And my photometric lights still don't cast shadows. In max this was a simple process. Uncheck auto reflect / refract in the render scene dialogue box, and when it renders, it still tries to calculate reflections???? Still haven't managed to find reflection channel in the material editor. This is doing my nuts in. They've moved things around so much, there seems to be loads of inconsistencies in the interface. Where are the good old no-nonsense omni and target lights anyway?