Seeking Advice

Hello All -

I am not quite sure if I am saying this correctly so I apologize and please bare with me.

I have seperate files of drawings that contain the same Floor Plan. I have a file that just contains the Floor Plan, a file that contains the Floor Plan with Electrical, A file that shows the Floor Plan with Plumbing, and a file showing the Floor Plan with HVAC. Please remember these are all seperate files but have the same Floor Plan. This is a pain in the butt for the CAD Person who has to modify all of these files when something is modified on the Floor Plan as well as mistakes made when/if one or some of the related work products happens to get forgotten to get modified in the process.

So, what I would like to accomplish is to somehow have a file with just the Floor Plan, and then have the Floor Plan embedded (Linked) into the other files so that the CAD Person only has to modify the Floor Plan drawing and the changes automatically take effect in the other files when opened.

Is this possible? If, so what is the correct way to go about this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Start by doing just that, create a "base" drawing that contains all of your background (in your case plan info).

Start a new drawing (or open one of the drawings you'd like to update) and xref the "base" file into that drawing. (Be sure to erase all of the plan linework before you xref so you don't end up with extra lines all over the place).

That'll do it. Now, whenever a change is made to the base file, the changes will update each time the drawing is opened or the xref is re-loaded. You can also edit the background drawing from within any of the other drawings using the Refedit command.

If you want people to be able to work on the base file while someone has another file open that references it, make sure that under Options>Open and Save> on the right side there is a section for External References (xref's), be sure that this is set to "Enable with copy".

Hope that helps.

 

Yes. Xref! Never duplicate data in 20 different files. Have one FloorPlan
file and Xref it into all the others. Then there is only one file to make
changes in.

 

Thank You all for the great advice! I appreciate it. I will try this as soon as I get a free moment.

Thanks again!

 

XREF (External Reference)

Read this to get an overview:
http://www.markcad.com/autocad/tutorials/xrefs.htm

Google this: "AutoCAD" + "Xref"

One tip: use Xref Overlay instead of Xref Attach to start.

 

Xref

Do you recommend this OVER having one file with many
layers in it?

Im working on a floor plan file as we speak.... with
abt 50 layers in it and its confusing as hell!

 

Xrefs can be used to separate different disciplines. It is less confusing
than having everything in one drawing.

We have a base floor plan that we use as a background for all of our
different plans. This plan has items that would appear in almost every
plan. Items such as walls, doors, windows, stairs, etc. We design grocery
stores so we also include furniture, equipment, and store display fixtures.

This plan is xreffed into different plans such as the Reflected Ceiling
Plan, Lighting Plan, Plumbing Plan, Power Plan, HVAC Plan, etc. Layers that
are not needed are frozen. Layers that are needed for that particular
drawing are highlighted by changing the layer colors. And the rest of the
visible layers are grayed-out.

The main benefit of using xrefs is, any changes made to the flor plan layout
are made in one place, the base floor plan. Any changes made in the base
floor plan will appear in all of the other plans the next time they are
openned.


As far as having 50 layers in one drawing, that's not all that bad. I've
heard of some drawings that have 200+ layers. In our base floor plan, we
usually have 25-30 layers max.

 

Nice to know there are open minded people left in this world!

We have a client who knows all about xref's but they're "just to busy to
convert" their residential house plan drafting procedure to utilize xref'd
bases. They have the base plan copied "underneath" EVERY plan in the set.
And they wonder why their outsouce people have such a time updating/revising
their plans!

 

Do you recommend this OVER having one file with many

In my opinion, every file should be as lean as it can be. The old pin registration drafting method is the perfect
example of how xrefs should be arranged; only have the information that everyone who needs that plan must have, and put
the information you need in another file.

I also think that only one layout tab should be in each file. Otherwise, you are sure to be cluttering up that file
with things that will make xreffing that file into another a mess.

Finally, OVERLAY, do not ATTACH. It doesn't affect your file, but saves anyone exreffing it a ton of grief.

 

While 'Overlay' is a great option, and probably best in most cases, don't
rule out 'Attach', learn them both, they are both very valuable for what
they are intended for. We do a lot of conduit work for the utilities in our
area. I commonly have a file for the plan view, and a file for the profile
view, these are referenced into the plan and profile sheet. Depending on
the number of hands involved, we may have several more separate files. In
my plan view, I will ATTACH files like future improvements, ROW, etc because
I want these to stay together exactly as they are no matter where I take
them. In the profile view, I OVERLAY the plan view because I need to see
the plan view for my profile work (along with all of its ATTACHED files),
but I don't want the little sucker following my profile into the sheet. If
I were to overlay the files above into the plan view, they wouldn't follow
the plan view into my profile and retain the settings like rotation that I
had already made. I had a hard time teaching this to folks in the office,
but basically it boils down to: Overlay=doesn't follow; Attach=follow.
Both good for their intended use, both can cause unnecessary headaches when
used wrong.

--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards

registration drafting method is the perfect

everyone who needs that plan must have, and put

you are sure to be cluttering up that file

anyone exreffing it a ton of grief.

 

While I kinda agree that files should be lean, I have to say that each file needs the number of layers required to make working with that file as smooth as possible. 50 layers is not a lot of layers, I may have 15-20 layers on which specific XREFs will reside. Understand, also, that layers and controlling their visibilty can make working in 3D very easy or very hard.


<<Finally, OVERLAY, do not ATTACH. >>

Here I agere with John. Granted, 90% of our xrefs are overlaid, but there are many cases where ATTACH is the much better option. Two different tools with two different uses.
<<I also think that only one layout tab should be in each file. Otherwise, you are sure to be cluttering up that file
with things that will make xreffing that file into another a mess.>>

Here I must disagree. Evry time the multiple tab discussion comes up, someone talks about creating a mess. I just don't understand. We use multiple tabs all the time, and have since the capability was presented and none of our files are in a "mess". If you have sloppy designers, run 'em off, it has NOTHING to do with multiple tabs.

 

I agree with O.C. on the layouts, missed that the first time around. If I'm
doing a simple architectural plan, I will reference my floor plan into a
clean drawing, in that drawing I may put all of my electrical, plumbing,
hvac, etc. Then I have a separate tab in that one drawing for each of the
plan set sheets. It works nicely most times as changes to one of those
items can affect the others and I don't have to jump around all over the
place to make sure I got it all. Of course, you get past a certain size
project and that format doesn't necessarily work as well, especially if you
are dealing with more than one floor. I just do my best to find out the
total scope before I start, setup accordingly, and pray, pray, pray, that
some huge change or addition doesn't come along 3/4 of the way through that
blows it all out of the water. SO much of this, (xrefs, tabs, dims,
paper/model) isn't a problem or difficulty with the program so much as the
user. Training is a great place to start, after that, the USER must follow
up with a little dedication, motivation and attention to detail. If he
can't/won't maybe he's in the wrong field (or at least the wrong office if
he's here).

--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards

file needs the number of layers required to make working with that file as
smooth as possible. 50 layers is not a lot of layers, I may have 15-20
layers on which specific XREFs will reside. Understand, also, that layers
and controlling their visibilty can make working in 3D very easy or very
hard.

are many cases where ATTACH is the much better option. Two different tools
with two different uses.

you are sure to be cluttering up that file

someone talks about creating a mess. I just don't understand. We use
multiple tabs all the time, and have since the capability was presented and
none of our files are in a "mess". If you have sloppy designers, run 'em
off, it has NOTHING to do with multiple tabs.

 

In my opinion, every file should be as lean as it can be.

This is sort of what Im leaning towards as well....
using xrefs instead of many layers

 

This is sort of what Im leaning towards as well....

You obviously don't want an unecessarily bloated file however you will have
as many layers as you need. Using xref's won't cut down on your layers,
your xreffed layers come in also. The important part is having a layer
system that lends flexibility to the drawing, defined by it's intended use.

Matt

 

It sounds like you may be the only one working on all disciplines in a project. But if you have a project with multiple
disciplines having to coordinate their work and reference your plan, then multiple tabs means that your model will have
entities that the rest of the disciplines don't want to have to sort through.

 

The important part is having a layer

use.<<

AMEN. Man, before I got tasked with revamping everything around here. We
had one layer for text. It was called TEXT, imagine that. Now, imagine
doing a civil plan with a survey as a base map and trying to manipulate that
!@$#^$ monster so that you can see what you need and ONLY what you need.
Not gonna happen. Same with linework. Turn off the 'TOPO' layer in an
older drawing and guess what. 95% of the drawing disappear! ARGH!!! Yeah,
there were only a few layers in the whole drawing (lean by definition), but
for crying out loud, you couldn't use the file. We know have a template
with layers defined for each item and utility, with most layers having a
layer for lineworks, one for blocks, and another for text. Everyone griped
at first, funny part was civil did the most griping and it had the most
benefit to them, but now it has become pretty popular. Our template has a
lot of layers, but when you are done, purge the little sucker, and poof
instant small drawing. In my opinion, layering and xrefs just about go hand
in hand since one of the many big advantages to an xref is the additional
layer control it affords you.

 

No, not actually. We are divided up into a department for each discipline
basically, although it is not uncommon for one person to work across the
lines. My example below is by no means a hard track or the only way, but
for example: I draw up the floor plan, a guy from civil will take that
plan and reference it into a clean drawing. In that drawing he may have
multiple tabs, one for paving/grading, one for the site plan, etc, depending
on the size and complexity. I will take a copy of that plan, reference it
into a clean drawing and create my wall layouts, roof plan, reflected
ceiling plan, etc. in one drawing, multiple tabs. Myself or someone else,
may take that same floor plan and create the plumbing, electrical, hvac,
etc. One base drawing, multiple users, few files as possible, multiple
plans. It's all divided up into groups, rather than necessarily people.
I'm not going to have one guy laying in all the plumbing and another guy
laying in all the electrical and so on. That's just inefficient. As far as
sorting through multiple entities, if I reference in a drawing, I get the
model, not the tabs, yes there may be some other layers they don't need, but
a few well designed layer states, and planning up front makes it a matter of
a couple of clicks to get where you need to be. This is just something that
works well in most cases for us. I'm not trying to tell O.P. that that is
what he needs to be doing, just that it is one thought.
--
John Michalik
Drafting and Design
LDD/CAD Development & Standards

project. But if you have a project with multiple

multiple tabs means that your model will have

 

my peev on mech and plumb drawings is that all of the text is on one
layer...

I can turn off all of piping layers that I don't need to see, but, I still
have all of the text for every other type of pipe cluttering up the junk
having to trace down and make sure you have the right note...

so, you need it simple, yes, but, still enough details to be clear...

 

Right, and that's what I was getting at, the new standard we've implemented
goes a long way to achieving what you are talking about, for us at least.
You may need more than that, or less.

 

<<I still have all of the text for every other type of pipe cluttering up the junk having to trace down and make sure you have the right note... >>

Annotation in PS really cleans up a model.