re LayerCreator

Hey Tim,

I tried your Layer_Creator and it started but didn't give me any layers to
create. Not a big thing but it brings up the whole question of how layers
are created and used.

The first question is, "How do you change layers?"

Most people seem to do it from the layer pull down or the layer manager.
Others I am sure do it by clicking on a entity on a layer that they want to
put an entity on. Both choices mean that the layer has to be created and the
first means that you need to know what that layer name is. Using your
Layer_Creator, I assume you would simply call it up and add the new layer
that you need. This is faster than using the Layer Manager to create a new
layer and put in all the proper properties but not as fast as using a
template with all the layers already there, which has it's own overhead of
more layers then necesary to do the job.

I think that layers created as they are needed is the way to go but having
to select a layer according to its layer name is slow and for lack of a
better word, "unproductive" especially when talking about plumbing and hvac
systems. These systems are not "Rocket Science" and designing them and
drafting them shouldn't be complicated at all. People are always complaining
about too many layers, layer names that are too long or too cryptic. How
about a system where you don't care what the layer name is actually where
you design and draft sanitary drainage systems, or duct systems. Most cad is
viewed as coloured lines on a computer screen instead of plumbing systems or
heating piping systems and tools to create layers such as yours only
incourage this. How about a system that is based on single building system
layer such as sanitary drain where everything else for that sanitary drain
system is directly related to that system keys directly off of the sanitary
drain layer. The only layer needed to begin is the plumbing sanitary drain
layer. Everything else needed is created from that layer and only when
needed. The system starts with the plumb-san-drain as current, and then when
you need a riser, you select a "riser icon" and your are switched to the
plumb-san-drain-riser or plumb-san-riser and given the riser block to
insert, and after inserting it, returned to your plumb-san-drain layer as
your current layer. Select the " pipe size icon " and you are switched to
the appropiate plumb-san-dain anno or plumb-san-anno layer to draw the
leader and the selected pipe size is put in. Again, back to the
plumb-san-drain layer as current layer.

What is involved is a system of layer names that are relative to each other
and the layers that you need to switch to are a sub-set of the current
layer. The tool to switch simply reads the current layer, then builds a new
current layer based on the old one. Plumb-san-drain needs a pipe size so the
system takes the plumb-san- and adds anno for the pipe size layer and makes
it current. After the size is done, it returns back to the previous layer.
If you need to do the domestic cold water supply to a wc, then the current
layer, plumb-san-drain then the system takes the plumb- and adds dcw to it
so you can show the cw supply and again graps the plumb-dcw and adds anno
for the cold water pipe size.

You define tool bar macros using a little lisp and away you go. There is
nothing wrong with your system but you have to get past the "creation of
layer names" into the acual building system or plumbing system that you are
working with. Once you start with the first one to change to a anno layer to
put a size on something, you then move on to having something on an existing
layer that you change to a demo layer simply by selecting that entity (after
picking the change to demo tool button of course).
Now you can use multiple levels in on dwg and change levels at the pick of a
tool button and change the current layer level as desired. Once you set it
up and start using it, you stop thinking in terms of that red line being on
the plumb-san-drain and start thinking that that red line is the sanitary
drain line in the second floor ceiling space that is connected to a wc on
the third floor.

Think about it.

Dave Alexander
Keen Engineering Co. Ltd.
www.keen.ca

 

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the input, After a few e-mails with Dave Dyet I found that I had
forgotten to fix the directory within the program That is why it doesn't
work for you (the directory structure needs to be C:\Program Files\Layer
Creator|Layer Files.) Working on the fix for that.

I have thought allot about a system similar to that of what you mention,
were menu pulldowns and toolbars and right click menus change based on the
design phase i.e. floor plan, electrical, plumbing, etc.. Some of stuff I
have is customized so that it is already drawn on the correct layer, and
some blocks insert on the correct layer. I created the Layer Creator for
as more or less a bridge between customized and non customized hopefully to
eventually move toward the system that you explained, where my main thought
can be in the design and not which layer am I on. But I thought while
creating it make it so maybe some one else may get some use out of it.

You make a good point.

--
_________________________________
Timothy Spangler

"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today"
Abraham Lincoln
_________________________________

AutoCAD 2002
WinXP
Compaq Evo W6000
Intel Xeon / 1G RAM

 

That's almost exactly how we control layers. Nearly everything is created as needed, as a sub-set of some "process". The only time the users really need to be aware of setting the proper layer is if the key-in entire commands. Using shorthands, pull-downs, toolbars, whatever else will result in the element "landing" on the right layer.

Ever so often, elements from one "process" may be copied to another "process", in that event, user must also change the new elements to the proper layer. We have some tools to automate this, but I'm still looking to streamline it considerably.

 

One of my favoriate routines is for changing a selection set of entities,
which are on different layers to the same but different "subset" of their
layers. All the layers have the same components, and when doing a
renovation, we would have to change the layers from "new" to "existing" and
then some of the "existing" to "demolation". Pick the macro, make a
selection set, even the whole drawing with a window and it changes all the
entities to the apporpiate layer, from new to existing.

:3:44 PM 17/04/02, Dave Alexander, Poole and Associates
(setq list1 (ssget))
(while
( /= ( sslength list1) 0)
(progn
(setq nme (ssname list1 0))
(setq ECLAY (CDR (ASSOC 8 (ENTGET NME))))
(setq CL1 (substr ECLAY 1 1) )
(setq CL2 (substr ECLAY 2 1) )
(setq CL3 (substr ECLAY 3 1) )
(setq CL4 (substr ECLAY 4 1) )
(setq CL5 "E" )
(setq CL6 (substr ECLAY 6 1) )
(setq CL7 (substr ECLAY 7 1) )
(setq CL8 (substr ECLAY 8 1) )
(setq ELYNME (strcat CL1 CL2 CL3 CL4 CL5 CL6 CL7 CL8))
(setq ed (entget NME))
(setq ed (subst (cons 8 ELYNME) (assoc 8 ed) ed ))
(entmod ed)
(ssdel nme list1)
)
)

As you can see, the key to to having layer names with the same number of
components but it shouldn't be too hard to break down a layer name that uses
a " - " to separate the individule components.

Dave Alexander
Keen Engineering Co. Ltd.
www.keen.ca

as needed, as a sub-set of some "process". The only time the users really
need to be aware of setting the proper layer is if the key-in entire
commands. Using shorthands, pull-downs, toolbars, whatever else will result
in the element "landing" on the right layer.

"process", in that event, user must also change the new elements to the
proper layer. We have some tools to automate this, but I'm still looking to
streamline it considerably.

 

Timothy,

I thought that it was probably a directory structure thing.
I will set that up and give it another go.
I have never been happy about where and how to set layer properties and
reading a list to do this is something that I have always thought was the
way to go. That way, you only have to go to one place to change anything.

Dave Alexander
Keen Engineering Co. Ltd.
www.keen.ca