Program to flatten out Surfaces..????

Throw out a feeler to anyone who might have an idea about a software
package that can take a surface and flatten out. (ie like sheet metal
in SW)

Anyhelp is much appreciated

Art

 

You could use SW if the shape isn't complex. Add thickness of .001 or
something small and use sheetmetal features.

Corey

 

I believe that SurfaceWorks < http://www.surfaceworks.com/ > will flatten
out "formed" parts. It's a pretty spendy solution, around $6K as I recall.
There are other sheet metal software packages that are probably even better
at it (able to do trickier surfaces), but I don't remember their names. They
are also probably pretty expensive.


Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear"

 

Well Cliff,
As it so happens, UG has a "DeepDraw" module that does exactly this, and
very well at that.
Useless otherwise but.........

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
Portland
www.machiningsolution.com

 

Cliff wrote:
"How is ANY package to"flatten out" (correctly) a
non-developable surface???"
-------------

This is all I know about it...
http://www.aerohydro.com/products/industrial/flattener.htm

Rhino will flatten developable and very low guassian
curvature surfaces.

 

Deri Jones posted on 26 July under topoic "Anybody ever used SurfaceWorks??"
describing how SurfaceWorks is used in the marine industry for this purpose,
and the preceding posts traversed some of the strengths and weaknesses of
the package

HTH

 

Art,

Check out GeometryWorks3D ( http://www.cadcamcomponents.com/ ) or BlankWorks
( http://www.forming.com/blankworks.htm ).

Hope this helps.

John

 

I would not place much trust in either (as a designer) unless

Cliff,

I would agree with you here, as these types of tools are "predictive".
So much hinges on the actual fabrication elements:

-Tooling techniques (like draw-restraint-lips/beds which are not part
of the final part but in the tool i.e. a factor not know to the "part
designer", urethane tooling that expands, number of shell reductions
or rehits, presence of heat to aid drawability)

-Press stroke & speed

-Material pinning conditions

-Wear condition of drawn surfaces in tool (high polish or degrading
surfaces from wear - ummm where are we in the run?)

-Lubrication used and ammount

-Material conditions - Grain controlled? Run from a common lot?
Temper? Thickness variatons? (real world stuff that degrades success)

-Geometry of part - round shells? rectangular regions? complex
cavities?

I'm sure that in experienced hands they can be _extremely helpful_ in
solving real problems. But I do shudder when we get the "lets hit the
magic button and flatten this complicated thing out exactly" state of
mind - that's mostly marketing (as you know).

An expert system, while valuable if used wisely, is no replacement for
expertise.

Later-

SMA

 

"Cliff"
" I would not place much trust in either (as a designer)
unless
the manufacturing process was well controlled and well
tested,
as well as the specific materials <G>.
Is the AeroHydro stuff based on Bezier surfaces? IIRC they
have been mentioned before as the latest & greatest
(buzzword
by all recall whom <G>) inre things from the 1970s .... that
were
considered brand new ... "

Rhino's is decent; compares surface areas before and after,
if I remember correctly, and reports the deltas. From a mfg
viewpoint the placement of the surface is the consideration
(neutral axis, k factor, etc.)

I don't know anything about the AeroHydro products. Looked
at MaxSurf once, but the interface was just too far out
there for what I wanted. I'd guess that the flattener could
be useful to get within a usable tolerance range for some
compounds once the user gets an idea of what it's
limitations are. Dunno... Wonder if it reports strain,
etc. to get from flat to deformed shape?

 

Cliff wrote:
" Last I knew, several years ago, large stamping operations
(think automotive, as one example) would jump on software
that did this sort of thing extermely well ... there's lot
of time, effort & machining invested in tweaking those tools
.... after the best designers gave it their best shot."

 

I work for a die shop that produces internal and external automotive body
panels. Unfortunately I cannot recommend software as I don't do anything
related to design. I believe we do FEA to attempt to get the dies very close
to where they should be. As for building...

While the dies are engineered, they _never_ come out making good panels
right off the bat. Getting a panel correct dimensionally can take a couple
of months. Getting it cosmetically correct ("class A" or "skin" sections)
can take many months. And don't forget engineering changes...

The process of "adjusting" the dies usually includes welding, remachining,
spotting, stoning, polishing and then checking (CMM).

HTH.

Regards,

Robin

 

The process of "adjusting" the dies usually includes welding, remachining,

This sounds absolutely correct - at some point it all comes down to
aristry and sculpture (toolmaking at it's finest) - all the
engineering and what you are "supposed to do" gives way to what you
"have to do" to get the job done.

Personally I have designed hundreds of dies and my stock saying is:

"I guarantee that this die will not produce a good part first time in
the press".

If we could get a good part in two press set-up's (intitial hits +
tuning) I was happy.

Regards-

SMA

 

I think this is one of the reason why I still post in this group. As a
community, if I am looking for answer 99% of the time, I get some type
of lead to go and check. Thanks a milll to you all.

I am checking out some of the leads that were posted, but it seems
like most are for basic, stright forward geometry. I guess I am
looking for something that will let me work with very complex
"ergonomic" shapes. I will keep searching, if I find I will post up.

Arthur

 

Arthur,
Have a look at the Forming Technologies site.
I don't have the address anymore but FastBlank3D or FastForm are both very
impressive.


--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
Portland
www.machiningsolution.com

 

Found It.


http://www.forming.com

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
Portland
www.machiningsolution.com

 

LOL. Feel lucky. We will cycle a full set of dies (usually five dies plus
initial blanking die) twice in one day sometimes and it still takes 24+
months.

Regards,

Robin

 

If we could get a good part in two press set-up's (intitial hits +

Totally believable given what sounds like a sculpture job in the end.

My personal favorite was when some manager would "hang around" the
press anxiously waiting to see the first hit from a new too asking
"So, are we going to get a good part guys". I would simply say
"absolutely . . . not! Now go wait in the car". Eventually we
trained them to understand that tools needed tuning, almost without
exception.

Actually the only tools that were usually perfect their first time out
were the coumpund dies, but often times with some pre-confirmation,
compliments of laser cut blanks.

On thing I do have to say about solidworks is that since we modeled
our PARTS in solidworks and made an assembly model, we had
_drastically_ fewer errors when the parts did come together at the end
of the process. The semi-perfs from part "A" matched the hole & slot
in part "B" and so on. This was often not the case when we used the
old 2D and approached each part as a project, rather than a component.
The assembly model really made things flow correctly and helped us
make really good "inter-part" plans, not to mention fixtures. It gave
us more time to work on the demands of tooling, not farting around
with drafting errors.

Regards-

SMA

 

I have no idea. I reasonably sure they don't know either. Everyone in
automotive gets squeezed financially. I think if we could design these dies
so that they perform correctly on the first hit, we probably would...

Regards,

Robin