PDM Problem with paper prints

I have run into an interesting PDM problem.

1. There are thousands of existing prints. Some are in SW, some are in
another non-mainstream 2D format and many are still on paper.

2. Frequently a single print will exist as several sheets. The oldest parts
will be on paper, then in the 2D format and the newest in SW. On this print
there will be tables with part numbers for each variation of the part. They
had design tables before SW even existed.

3. It is probably not cost effective to convert all the paper and 2D prints
to SW.

4. There is a BOM database in a commonly used SQL database already to track
this stuff, but it doesn't integrate with SW. Everything has to be done by
hand.

Has anyone had to deal with this sort of thing?

The goal is to be able to use the tools in SW to streamline things. Right
now SW is not even used to generate the BOM.

 

Hi Kelnerp -

The old what to do about legacy data when using a vault?

The short answer -> "nothing". Personally I have this same problem at
my exising job where we have legacy data in paper, versacad 2d,
autocad2d & solidworks. As long as the part print is viable and does
not call for revison, it does not matter if it is desinged on stone
tablets written in cuneiform, it's still a viable part print until
it's revisioned, so it can continue to do its job until you need to
revision it.

Sounds perfectly viable to me. Perhabis a bit of inheritance from the
60's or whenever, but still, if it works, it works.

Absolutely correct from my point of view. It does not make any sense
to do any of the coversions, if ever, unless you are changing the
part. Now there is the question of is it more labor to jockey paper
or convert/scan prints in, but that's another question.

This is so common with cad to PDM/MRP. Usually its a brute force
thing to "jam" the BOM into the "other system". The systems are
really disconnected and it's a common problem.

Anyone who works for a company with PDM & MRP that has been in
business for more than about 5 minutes has this problem. The trouble
is that usually, cross system integration is an afterthought or the
system one has presently does not even have a reasonable way to
migrate data from one to the other. It is sad, but very common -

You're not alone here.

Regards-

SMA

 

Kellnerp,

Actually this has been a hot topic of conversation as of late
within my company. We have a very similar situation. Hundreds of
hand drawings, several thousand dwg's, and now recently SolidWorks
data. We have an ERP system (Avante by Epicor) where we manually
construct the BOM's for all our products. Our assembly drawings do
contain BOM's as well. Just lately there has been a proposal to
actually not display BOM's on drawings but use a printout from ERP
system as the official BOM as this would conserve on time spent
generating the BOM's on drawings and maintaining them with the ERP
system. Of course everyone is not really thinking in terms of
SolidWorks yet and is still stuck in the ACAD world of thinking (very
inefficient). Even so, there are ways we just haven't investigated
where we could export the ACAD BOM and import that into our ERP. The
decisions like these are most often made by those that don't use the
tools everyday and are unaware of other tools posibilities. It seems
the root of the problem is that ERP systems are not picked by the
individuals that either understand CAD or even care, CAD is seen as
another entity that engineering takes care of. And I think that
because of that most ERP systems have not had any real capability like
this (until maybe just recently) because those purchasing the software
hadn't thought to ask for it or demand it. Silly when you think of it
because its engineering that really creates the BOMs in the first
place. In our company we create the BOMs on the drawing and then
draftsmen just basically re-type all of that information to enter them
in the ERP - really crazy. Most of them haven't thought of ways to
cut and paste let alone how this whole process could be automated,
they just know they have to type it twice and it takes too long. I
think what we are discussing is what the software industry is trying
to term as PLM. A small (very small) part of that whole nebulous term
is the concept of a single point of entry of information by the right
people at the right time and then infinite re-use of that information
when necessary. Create a model for a particular item, give it a
description and appropriate file properties, and then use that
information 50 other places where the BOM is automatic (SolidWorks
assemblies). Really it should be the SolidWorks assembly that drives
the ERP BOM and not some disjointed concoction of the two. I have
heard of some products out there that allow you to tie SolidWorks (and
your PDM) with your ERP system - SmarTeam is one of them. The problem
right now is that these are very difficult to implement cleanly,
quickly, and cost efficiently. Our SolidWorks VAR actually steered us
away from that and to PDM/Works based on what he saw in our company.
Often times attempts at this require that the company hires an
individual full time who is an expert at just this application - which
often times crosses off the list a number of small companies that just
don't want to deal with the complexity, added staff, or downtime on
implementation. On the other hand its absurd to think of the
wastefullnes of having a program like SolidWorks and not using or at
least tapping into some of the real power of it. It seems to me like
CAD/PDM/PLM is heading this way, but its just not prevalent enough to
be easy enough, cheap enough, or worth most company's effort with out
some techincally proficient employees in that area. Of course
companies like Boeing have millions, possibly billions of dollars to
throw Dassualt and IBM's way on the design of the new 7E7 - but what
remains the question is how worthwhile is it for small companies to
implement this given the infinte number of possibilities that exist
within the differences of the morkings of a company. We don't have
companies like Dassault and IBM at our fingertips to consult us at
every turn. I have been trying to find information myself on this
topic and its always discussed as PLM, but there don't seem to be many
solutions that seem worthwhile right now for a comany thats locked in
with using a certain ERP system. Its not saying that we couldn't
decide to make it work with some other products out there, its just
that it doesn't seem worthwhile. I am sure that will change (it seems
only logical) but who knows how long it will take - hopefully sooner
rather than later. If anyone knows of a product that could go between
PDM/Works and a product like Avante (by Epicor) I would love to be
informed. For now it looks like the best bet is to use the reporting
function of PDM/Works to create a text BOM and then import that into
an ERP system. Maybe in the background thats really what more comlex
set-ups are doing. I don't forsee PDM/Works expanding its capabilites
as far as "speaking" to ERP systems as that would probably be stepping
on the toes of SmarTeam. Hey - I know, why doesn't SolidWorks just go
on another venture and set out to "bring affordable ERP to the desktop
of every engineer." Hope I haven't bored anyone. Kellnerp, I would
love to hear what you find. I'll try to do the same with huge amount
of free time I have. Thanks.

Pete Yodis
Harold Beck and Sons

 

Kellnerp,

Actually this has been a hot topic of conversation as of late
within my company. We have a very similar situation. Hundreds of
hand drawings, several thousand dwg's, and now recently SolidWorks
data. We have an ERP system (Avante by Epicor) where we manually
construct the BOM's for all our products. Our assembly drawings do
contain BOM's as well. Just lately there has been a proposal to
actually not display BOM's on drawings but use a printout from ERP
system as the official BOM as this would conserve on time spent
generating the BOM's on drawings and maintaining them with the ERP
system. Of course everyone is not really thinking in terms of
SolidWorks yet and is still stuck in the ACAD world of thinking (very
inefficient). Even so, there are ways we just haven't investigated
where we could export the ACAD BOM and import that into our ERP. The
decisions like these are most often made by those that don't use the
tools everyday and are unaware of other tools posibilities. It seems
the root of the problem is that ERP systems are not picked by the
individuals that either understand CAD or even care, CAD is seen as
another entity that engineering takes care of. And I think that
because of that most ERP systems have not had any real capability like
this (until maybe just recently) because those purchasing the software
hadn't thought to ask for it or demand it. Silly when you think of it
because its engineering that really creates the BOMs in the first
place. In our company we create the BOMs on the drawing and then
draftsmen just basically re-type all of that information to enter them
in the ERP - really crazy. Most of them haven't thought of ways to
cut and paste let alone how this whole process could be automated,
they just know they have to type it twice and it takes too long. I
think what we are discussing is what the software industry is trying
to term as PLM. A small (very small) part of that whole nebulous term
is the concept of a single point of entry of information by the right
people at the right time and then infinite re-use of that information
when necessary. Create a model for a particular item, give it a
description and appropriate file properties, and then use that
information 50 other places where the BOM is automatic (SolidWorks
assemblies). Really it should be the SolidWorks assembly that drives
the ERP BOM and not some disjointed concoction of the two. I have
heard of some products out there that allow you to tie SolidWorks (and
your PDM) with your ERP system - SmarTeam is one of them. The problem
right now is that these are very difficult to implement cleanly,
quickly, and cost efficiently. Our SolidWorks VAR actually steered us
away from that and to PDM/Works based on what he saw in our company.
Often times attempts at this require that the company hires an
individual full time who is an expert at just this application - which
often times crosses off the list a number of small companies that just
don't want to deal with the complexity, added staff, or downtime on
implementation. On the other hand its absurd to think of the
wastefullnes of having a program like SolidWorks and not using or at
least tapping into some of the real power of it. It seems to me like
CAD/PDM/PLM is heading this way, but its just not prevalent enough to
be easy enough, cheap enough, or worth most company's effort with out
some techincally proficient employees in that area. Of course
companies like Boeing have millions, possibly billions of dollars to
throw Dassualt and IBM's way on the design of the new 7E7 - but what
remains the question is how worthwhile is it for small companies to
implement this given the infinte number of possibilities that exist
within the differences of the morkings of a company. We don't have
companies like Dassault and IBM at our fingertips to consult us at
every turn. I have been trying to find information myself on this
topic and its always discussed as PLM, but there don't seem to be many
solutions that seem worthwhile right now for a comany thats locked in
with using a certain ERP system. Its not saying that we couldn't
decide to make it work with some other products out there, its just
that it doesn't seem worthwhile. I am sure that will change (it seems
only logical) but who knows how long it will take - hopefully sooner
rather than later. If anyone knows of a product that could go between
PDM/Works and a product like Avante (by Epicor) I would love to be
informed. For now it looks like the best bet is to use the reporting
function of PDM/Works to create a text BOM and then import that into
an ERP system. Maybe in the background thats really what more comlex
set-ups are doing. I don't forsee PDM/Works expanding its capabilites
as far as "speaking" to ERP systems as that would probably be stepping
on the toes of SmarTeam. Hey - I know, why doesn't SolidWorks just go
on another venture and set out to "bring affordable ERP to the desktop
of every engineer." Hope I haven't bored anyone. Kellnerp, I would
love to hear what you find. I'll try to do the same with huge amount
of free time I have. Thanks.

Pete Yodis
Harold Beck and Sons