OT - the US is a lousy world citizen

ms is a little upset with my views and that's ok
I don't mind that he has strong words to share
these are frustrating times for folks inside and outside the US.
I know it is challenging to have someone express a different perspective
than he would like to hear and he is angry and perhaps feels
betrayed,alienated of hurt by it.
However he should be assured we are all trying to make the world a better
place to live in. Presently we seem to disagree about what that is and how
to go about it however it will all work out in the end for the better though
not without compromise.

As far as place goes I do indeed live in New Zealand -that's a small island
country east of Australia- and indeed we do have sheep as ms does in his own
country but I am sorry to say no colourful convict history unlike our fine
upstanding Australian cousins.
Even though he won't appreciate it I wish ms a pleasant holiday and
prosperous new year and sincerely say I hope to continue to share an
interest in using solidworks with him in the future.

 

Actually the latest National Geographic.

 

I don't know what type of propaganda immersion you live in, but
unless you are living in a cave, it is incomprehensible that
such ignorance of current events is possible.

bill

 

Before you go and start praising "Slick Willie" and the Democrats, you need
to look at what they do in conjunction with the US media. The Democratic
party has done more in the last 50 years to take the US closer to Communism
or Socialism than anybody else. They preach that the Government is the
solution for all of your woes and that personal responsibility for your life
does not exist.

If you look at the differences between Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, there is
a HUGE difference in what has happened to those communities. Personally I
am getting tired of the Katrina "victims" whining about the government not
GIVING them more. Why haven't they gone out and found their jobs? The
media keeps portraying them as victims of a government conspiracy, but they
are victims of their own slothfulness. I have little pity for many of them
because they were warned to leave, and didn't. Now that re-construction is
going on, they are whining that other people have come in and are getting
jobs doing the cleanup and construction. Where were they when the jobs
first opened? Those people are living in a welfare state, where the
Democrats rule, and keep the people poor. The democrats and the media have
been telling the minorities that they are disadvantaged and need "special"
help. Since they have been told this for so long, they believe it and now
don't believe they can get anywhere without government assistance.

By the way, when it comes to the reasoning behind why we went into Iraq,
Bush was going off of information left to him by Bill Clinton and the
Democrats.

In some of your posts, you state that you get your news from sources outside
the US, well, you don't take a balanced approach to learning the truth, you
only go after what you believe in. For example, if you want reporting that
is 100% against the US, go to Al-Jazera (sp?). While they report "the
news", it is tainted with their own view points. So, if you read your news
from many of the mainstream media outlets, no matter what country you get it
from, you need to look at their position on things.

 

neil and Dominic are upset because they live in a 3rd rate backwater country
that has contributed little, if anything, to the global community. So they
come here to vent.

This is my last contribution to this meaningless thread. Sorry if I helped
fan the flames, but these two guys really hit a nerve.

 

It is a shame that this newsgroup seems to fracture as soon as world
politics intrudes, but then again it may just be a symptom of the
growing divergance in western democracies. Those who follow the
nation state model and those who have moved on to the post - nation
state world.

Anyway - I think Neville is alluding to the following series of
documentaries.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430484/

I saw the lot and they make a quite a persuasive case and and
interesting angle on the rise of Al qaida and its very close ties with
the US military in the war in Afghanistan.

I am not sure if they have been broadcast in the US but I would
recommend people to watch them. It will not change everyones view but
perhaps it might make Americans might re-read the warnings of
President Eisenhower in his last speeches to the American people. As
a General he understood that the Marines who stormed ashore at
Guadalcanal were part of a citizens army but he could see that the US
military and its various agencies were being manipulated into the
standing army that is now pissing away its legacy in the sands of
Iraq. "Lions led by Donkeys" was a phrase used to describe the
British and Commonwealth Armies of WW1 - it is just as apt for the US
army in Iraq.

Anyway to save you looking it up - here is Eisenhower's speech which I
am sure American already know.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm

In a dangerous world that lies ahead, US diplomacy realy does suck -
It takes alot to get a Canadian and a New Zealander to be impolite!

TTFN

Jonathan

 

first glance at the linked page...
the documentary was produced by the BBC.
do you consider them an objective source of information?

bill

 

If your looking for an 'objective' source of information you'll never
find one in this life !

One just has to look at lots of inputs and then use one own mind and
intelligence.

I am afraid there is no 'spoon fed' news channel available.


I recommend you watch it - I am sure it won't do you any long term
harm ;-)

TTFN


Jonathan

 

Bill

Here are the transcripts

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/The_Power_of_Nightmares:_The_Rise_of_the_Politics_of_Fear

Here are the transcripts

You can always print them out and then read them on the toilet if you
want - then you can re- use the paper if it really gets you upset.


TTFN

Jonathan

 

Now just a darn minute. Lord of the Rings was filmed there and I have
friends there. NZ is not a back water in anything. You will find NZs in
a lot of key places you would never expect. They carry their weight.

 

Jonathan
I notice you didn't answer the question.


bill

 

I'm sorry - I thought my view was easy to infer -

There are no such things as objective news sources especially when it
comes to documentaries - It is up to ones intelligence to decide what
one thinks is plausible and what is not.

So - Is the BBC totally 'objective'? - undoubtable not , as it is an
impossibility .

However if you could let me know of an 'objective' news source I'm all
ears .


TTFN

Jonathan

S

 

somewhat of a non-answer again.

how about:
do you consider BBC a "reasonably" objective news source?

the reason I have become very sceptical of documentaries in particular is
demonstated by
something I happened to catch on a primetime NBC News broadcast (in the US)
during the Katrina coverage.
An interviewer was doing a rather hostile piece with an official. After
several exchanges, the official made
what appeared to be a very embarrassing admission.
Trouble with it was, that I happened also to catch a rather lengthy (live)
piece the day before on a cable network, in which the same footage of the
official occurred, but with a different NBC interviewer! As I said, this
piece was lengthy, live, and covered many topics.
The prime time broadcast had carefully edited clips to have the official
answering an entirely different question.
Several emails about this (with time, dates, reporters names, the works)
were ignored by NBC news producers. Given that NBC is
actually one of the better networks about being partisan, this was an
eyeopener for me.

Bill

 

And don't forget Lucy Lawless. I think she was from NZ.
Gotta get your warrior princess types somewhere after all.

 

Are we playing 20 questions ?

yes - but the BBC is not just a news source - As this is a documentary
made by one man with BBC funding, I would hazard a guess that BBC news
editorial control was not excercised in this case. It is one mans
polemic, so you can take it or leave it.

Well I think one has to be careful what ever the news source - and try
and see all sides of the arguement and then make up ones own mind -
so give it a twirl I am sure the BBC can't brainwash you in just three
episodes. Just try and ignore the subliminal messages from the Queen,
but they are nanoseconds in length so I am sure you will be OK , but
if you start having an urge for a cup of tea every 2 hours I would go
to doctor as she might got through to you. Hey if you've got
$5billion to blow each year you might as well make it do some good.

Just as a background, the BBC is a Public Corporation that gets its
funding from TV licenses in the UK - every one who has a TV has to pay
£120 ( I think - my wife pays!!) and if you don't pay you can get a
criminal record. - so income from this alone is apprx 20m x £120 -
£2,400,000 pa - (bugger thats a lot of ££) so anyway they don't
need to pander to interest groups or the Government of the day. Thats
the theory anyway.

Its quite facinating what the BBC puts out -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/

Do me a favour - If you can find the English translation to this I
would be gratefull - I can't read Persian so who knows what they are
spending my money on ! And the only Persian I know is " Zindabad
Amerika" - which is not something you will find written down very
often ;-)

TTFN


Jonathan

 

And don't forget they provided both teams in the last final of the
Americas Cup !!

Jonathan

 

Has it occurred to you that people in the US, including the leadership are

OOH, OOH, I can answer that. NO it never crossed his mind!!!

Muggs

 

"the day was most likely saved by Bill Clinton"

Now that's funny!!!

Muggs

 

actually, yes:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...103-4509023-4641450?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

-john

 

actually, yes:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...103-4509023-4641450?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

-john