OT Boeing strike

I look at this in the news and I amazed by people who are paid US$60,000 for
operating a machine complaining about poor pay etc.
This reminds me of the US or British auto industry mentality that persisted
with unreal expectations in the face of a changing world.
Airbus... in fact anyone trying to get a foot in the manufacturing door will
love this.
The more you demand the sooner you will give the rest of the world the
advantage it needs....
just a happy thought
neil

 

Rights went out with monarchies, but some people don't get it yet...and
won't until the go bankrupt.

 

You operate one too.

 

Yeh... I see the Chinese have just bought Rover for a song.

Maybe they are lining up for Boeing?

 

Another greedy union that can stay on strike. Unions are the cause for
most of the problems with US jobs going overseas. Why should someone
sweeping floors get 20-30 dollars an hour and then bitch becuase he has
to pay for some of his rising health care costs.

 

If you are a janitor and don't "earn enough" (I won't attempt to define
this), then go back to school, one way or another.

Who ever decreed or guaranteed that a janitor job would allow a middle
class income. That was always a temporary spot for high school &
summer jobs.

 

Not if they re-classify the job as a "Sanitation Engineer". Then you will
need a 4-year degree to push the broom But since we are talking about
the Unions, then you probably need be a journeyman for a few years to learn
the trade before you are actually qualified to call yourself , or work as a
"Janitor".

Ken

 

I had an old girlfriend (she was young then) who used to work for US Steel
and she literally was not allowed to change the bulb in the lamp ON HER
DESK!
It had to be done by some Uni. Is it any wonder why US Steel is essentially
out of business and we purchase all of our steel form overseas???

Muggs

 

I look at this in the news and I amazed by people who are paid US$60,000

Better yet, some don't even put in 8 hours of work in a day. I had a
professor in college who did an ergonomic study for one of the big US car
manufacturers, and he had some interesting stories to tell.

He told us about how he was asked to observe the work of somebody who was
assembling a part. The union stipulated that he had a certain quota of
parts to make in a day, then he was done. THe problem was that he would do
all of his work in about 3 or 4 hours then dissappear. My professor asked
what he did once his work was done, and all he was told was that the worker
wasn't supposed to go home. Since the guy was working fast, it was
recommended that he was given the parts at a slower rate, but they couldn't
do that because it was against union rules. He then suggested that once his
assembly work is done that he do another job at the plant, but that too is
against the union rules. There were a couple of other suggestions, but they
all were against union rules. So, that just shows you how outrageous the
unions can get.

 

Dinosaurs die out quickly...once the food chain is altered.

 

Dinosaurs die out quickly...once the food chain is altered.
Too bad that that dinosaur is the US manufacturing capacity. Unions had
their place, but too often are now an impediment to efficiency.

I have heard tales of non-union steel mills making higher profits and
producing more steel than union mills. Does anybody know if this is true?

 

Jo,

Yep,, the unions aren't much more than a bastion for the mediocre at best.
Creative thinking and action aren't permitted. Just a "put bolt in hole"
type of mentality, oh,, and (almost forgot) gimme 80K a year to do it.

Back during the first aerospace bust we had alot of "machinests" looking for
work around here. I was real busy and needed an additional person for about
six months. I interviewed this guy who used to work for McDonald Douglas. He
seemed familiar with my CNC equipment, as well as the conventional stuff so
I gave him a shot. After being out of the shop for a couple of hours
(meeting) I came back to find him sitting in front of a silent machine,
reading the newspaper. I asked him "What's up". He said "A tool broke". I
said "Well,, change it". He said "I don't do that". I said "get the hell
out".

It's amazing to me that these guys brains haven't atrophied to the point
where they can't even tie their shoes.


Regards

Mark

 

I believe the term is Mini-Mills, where many of those companies recycle
steel into plate, rebar and shapes.

There is a whole new industry of those players in the last 20 years.

 

The best definition of a union is the protector of the lazy person. It's
sad that this is what American unions have become. It's no wonder the
kids don't want to work for a living but expect to be paid big dollars.
When a worker is told to slow down because they're making every one else
look bad because of the volume of work this one person is doing, I say
let the jobs go over seas. Or better yet, let the work that these lazy
*(&(#*&$%!@# won't do to the non union shops. The other thing with
unions is that when a non union contractor has to bid a job that is also
being quoted by union contractors ( government jobs), the non union
contractor MUST bid using union wage costs.

 

Better yet, some don't even put in 8 hours of work in a day. I had a

In my example, they guy wasn't lazy, he was very quick at what he did.
Because of this they were worried that he might get a Cumulative Trauma
Disorder (Carpal Tunnel or similar). Had he been in a non-union plant, he
would have been given other work to do or would have had his supply brought
in at a slower rate.

The problem that I see with many of the unions is that they treat the
working environment like its 1870's, and the benefits like its the 1960's.
The problem is that the conditions are not like either of those time
periods. I personally would love to have the health, retirement, and
employment benefits that the union people have. I think it is a sad day we
live in where the bluecollar unions have better benefits than the
whitecollar people who direct them.

 

Pre-republican & neocon, eh?

 

Unlike those record profits & wealth (for a few) that the
neocons brag about?

 

How much should the guys with the boring, smelly, sweaty, dangerous
jobs be paid?
How much should those that enjoy what they do (such as CEOs
& politicos) be paid?

 

I think it is a sad day we

If you have a boring job, that is your own fault, there is no job type that
is boring. For example, I work with a Technicion who I know is paid less
than $20/hr, but he loves his job. I have also seen engineers being paid
$45000/yr who are bored with their jobs.

I am not saying that smelly, sweaty, dangerous job positions should be paid
less. What I want to know is why is it that a union can come in and demand
better healthcare and retirement benefits than the engineers, managers,
accountants and soforth? With any job comes some on-the-job heath
protection under "Workman's Compensation." Which takes care of any accident
that happens at work, or is directly related to a person's position.

Salary or hourly wages are typically determined by market demand. For
example, if you want a person to clean a building and perform minor
maintenance, there are typically a lot of people who can fill that position.
Not because people have aspired to do that work, but because the
qualifications for that job are not that specific. Meaning that you can pay
them $15 an hour to do that work because there is someone qualified who will
take that pay. The other extreme can be seen in something like an engineer.
If a company wants an engineer for a specific discipline with X years
experience, a Professional License, and experience in specific CAD software,
they will have to pay more than $15/hr to get one. Not because the Engineer
is a snob, but because their skills are unique.

 

Being a former UAW member for 20+ years, I can testify to the validity of
previous comments. We must remember why the unions came to be and the
management attitudes at that time. I personally saw evidence of these
attitudes up intill the late 80's. The root causes of the unions demise were
the changing attitudes of management and the unions still being run by
unreasonable, visionless people.

The unions had their place but were unwilling to see the costs of their
unreasonable demands.

Steve