I'm a new novice. See previous post. Many thanks to R.K. McSwain for the analysis. And getting me past an insurmountable problem (AutoCAD failed completely (tripping over themselves trying to pass the buck!) ). Guess that's why groups exist. Now I'm getting very strange (ERRATIC!!) behaviours when trying to "snap to centre". Very annoying when you are trying to develop knowledge, patterns & rhythms (and editing should fade away..). And other problems that you don't know if it's you or it ain't supposed to do it, or its a bug! I know the teacher says to watch the command line - but this is another story!!! I'm doing as many drawings as I can, out of our book - AutoCAD 2004, Sham Tickoo - only way to learn. Pity book doesn't cover techniques. And drawing don't record the script! After just going through the hoops, only to find nobody cares, do I now try to input some positive feedback to AutoCAD? Don't really want to be a beta user. You too, can relive the road to 800HELL! - I DON'T THINK SO! And this product started in the early 80"s? Remember drilling down into a ship with a dos version, or early Windows 386. If I've got any technique questions - can this be done a better way - and remembering I'm a novice, can I post them? I'll use a DBQ prefix 'Dumb Beginner's Question' and appreciate any help / criticism. No binaries I guess? Anywhere we can post our files to? Not doing this to earn, yet. Have always been curious about the software, output and the user interface. And it must be neat, it cost soooo much! regards