Right then, after searching high & low I have managed to find some lisp programs that I have been searchimg for high & low. There are a few of them, but of particular note are Average.lsp & incrmnt.lsp, Average is a osnap, it gives a point in 3d from a number of clicked points, ideal for clicking on the 2d centre of a rectangle, or a 3d centre of a cube, or even a line two thirds of the way along. The only small problem with Acad 2k4 is that it requires an enter press rather than a right click to exit, as a right click exits the parent command (i.e. line) as well. I think this is to do with the way my right click is set up, but I am not sure. Incrmnt inserts a number from a given value to a given value in a given step value, at a given height to points clicked on. Handy for room numbers I use it for cabinet numbers). I never wrote these and claim nothing in the way of authorship, or development at all. I was sent them from Caddesk a few years back for R14. The author is a Mr. Andrew Bichard, and a mighty fine job he did of them too. I searched Cadalot and a few others for these type of files, but the only text insertion lisp I could find was for numbering existing text. This one creates it at the point clicked on. Let me know if anyone wants a copy, they come in a zip file (225k) and whilst I haven't read the licence agrement thing recently, I will only send it whole, as I remember it saying somewhere that I could distirbute it as much as I wanted as long as nothing was altered and it had all the stuff together?). Bigjobs