How effective is SW training from VAR's?

From the previous thread on "envelopes" the statement was made: "The
reason people don't use them, (ie. envelopes) is that VARs don't do
much educating."

While I agree that VAR's are the proper mechanism for such training, I
believe that it is almost impossible for VAR's to a very good job in
training. It is not that they don't try and it is not that they don't
have good people but it is "us", (at least me) that is the problem.
Like most of us, I have gone to several training classes. We have all
been in these classes where for three solid days every fact that can be
crammed into the time are thrown at us. Then after three days of not
being at work when we get back it takes weeks to a month to deal with
all of the issues before we get much of a chance to review what was in
the class... If many of you are like me, I'm lucky to find the book
after a month never mind remember what I learned in the class. I just
don't believe that the format for these types of training, (ie. 3 day
cramm sessions) are very successful and yet this seems to be the #1
tool that is available to VAR's to keep us informed.

Are there better ways?

One thing that I have found to be extremely useful has been the i-pod
casts that mountain-wave.com has made. For me they have just been
extremely helpful. For one thing, there have been times when some
little step went by too fast. But, this has not been a problem because
I could rerun that section over and over until I got it. One of the
problems that I have with the help system is that the directions will
describe pushing some button.... Fairly often I have spend quite a bit
of time looking for some button or trying to figure out what they are
trying to say... whereas it is very clear in a good wav file.

Now to be fair to my VAR, they have developed several hunderd (about 15
to 20 minutes long) wav files. The problem that I have with them is
that they are fairly expensive and because there is not a good index,
it can take quite a while to actaully find what is needed.

One solution that I have made to SW is that instead of the VAR's making
a system of wav files is that SW itself should do this. The main
reason for this is the cost. I took some assumptions about making 100
total hours of wav files that were PROPERLY indexed and a production
cost of $4,000 per hour, (just an estimate) that the total cost would
be approximately $1 per user, (World wide) if SW would do this. This
would be equivelent to three 30 hours classes and a 10 hour class on
"whats new". Enough training for all of us. Who of us would not be
willing to pay $1, $10, even more for such a set of training wav files?
The problem with VAR's attempting this is that they can only spread
these costs over a very small number of users so the cost is too high.

Another advantage for this is that if SW would make a set of standard
files that a fairly large number of support questions is, "how do I do
XYZ?" could be eliminated. At the very least, with such a wav system
the tech support person could say, "look at wav 1234" and call if you
have any further questions. (of course, a good index would allow the
user to not need to call in the first place... ) The over all
effeciency with such a wav system for the users, the VAR's and SW
should be greatly improved.

Also, if SW were to make such a system the links in the help system
could be greatly expanded and improved.

Does anyone agree with these ideas?

Ed

 

If the essentials class touched on just the essentials and left out
some of the marketing (Cosmos Xpress comes to mind) they would be more
effective. I have both taught and attended these classes. The
Essentials book is essential for any user of SW, even the advanced
users. These classes will really benefit the new user because of the
availability of the instructor to help get over the inevitable hurdles
and brain block.

But after that some kind of web based self learning and review might be
just the thing. Wouldn't it be nice if you could get this from the SW
web site as part of your subscription? Say five one hour modules on
mates, smart mates, smart fasteners, etc. with a self test at the end.
Perhaps to get into a series of modules you would first have to do the
classroom preparation and perhaps each VAR would be responsible to
grade submissions and work over the phone or email to help users get
over any humps.

 

VARs are at best a variable source of information. The reseller trainer
is fairly often the new guy. While he hopefully has at least a grasp of
the lesson for today, he is often a bit behind when it comes to
manufacturing and documentation processes. I've known a lot of SW
trainers, and they vary from immature and self absorbed to absent-minded
but full of brilliance if you can dig it out of them.

Your comment about the VARs not talking about some functionality is
certainly the case. There is so much untapped functionality in SW that
when you start looking for things you didn't know were there, it's kind
of scary the amount of stuff you can find. VARs are generally
comfortable only with the range of functionality you will find in the
typical sales demo.

There are a lot of things that could be improved about the training
experience. Face-to-face training is a good thing, but sometimes you
need information that isn't found on the beaten path. I think a desk
reference book is the way I would prefer to learn. I learned SW
originally from tutorials (the first training class I attended was one I
taught - scary). Tutorials are a good way to get the basics, but to get
more in depth information, you need the data compiled more in a list or
encyclopedia format, I think.

Podcasts are good for visual communication, but the time-based nature of
the format I think makes them impractical for searching or browsing. I
personally don't like the wav file idea. Audio is just too bothersome.
Again, I think the best of all worlds is to have a 10 lb reference
manual on your desk. I can't say I've found anything that exists now for
SolidWorks which really fits that bill.

Of course other sources of training are websites and forums like this
one. You could probably read a SolidWorks website every day that has
useful information on it. I wish there were better indexes of sites, but
like someone else mentioned, it gets old to have these sites that you
have to sign in to just to see information which is available other
places for free, and advertising on these sites is cheap and tiresome.

SolidWorks isn't going to do much to take away training dollars from
resellers. Resellers make a killing on training, far moreso
percentagewise than selling software. They would really beat up on SW if
they were seen to be competing with them for that money.

I really like what SW has done with the new customer portal and the
searchability of tech issues including SPRs and tips and general info.
This has opened up a huge amount of information to users, which I
haven't heard much about on the forums yet. If the last generation of
the Knowledge Base was really awful (and it was), this generation is
useful for researching topics you can't find training on.

That's another issue with formal training, that it has to stick to
fairly popular topics to be worth doing from the reseller point of view.
You can't get a command session on a topic like master model techniques.

Daisy

 

I think different users will learn better with different strategies,
and that seems to be the way it was when I was "in school" eons ago.

Some people read manuals and try and study on their own, and then the
people who come to class without any studying slow down the whole
process to a crawl.

I just couldn't justify sitting for 60 minutes to create 10-20
features.

I agree that self-directed podcasts could be a real help if they were
done right.

And when done right, I think they would be a valuable addition to get
new users to SolidWorks, but & it is a B..U..T, the VAR looks at this
entirely differently. A class full of people for so many days at half
the price of the software they people just paid for is a big time
income source.

I would expect the VARs to absolutely go ballistic over podcasts, until
one company does it and forces the competitors to step up to the line.
The 'SWks Basics for Dummies', is best left to a book and a podcast.
The world will change, whether VARs want it to or not.

Now if the VARs took over and held classes on the more complex issues,
including managing a server and workgroup, and one on one training for
small group of persons from the same company, I think they could
generate interest, but I don't know about the income.

Bo

 

OK, let's just say it. "Pod casts" are simply overrated avi files. Now
the mac-o-phile will undoubtedly attack. Anyway, pre-recorded messages
have the serious drawback of not being able to answer questions that
they aren't programmed for. They are good to show how to do one thing,
but who really needs that other than true beginners? They also get
copied and shared between users far too easily to make much money on them.

The less imaginative ones do, or have, I should say. This has been old
news for some time now. Solid-Spam Professor has been spamming pretty
solidly for the last few months. Resellers realize the best way to deal
with this is to sign up to sell it, get the rights to the territory, and
thus control (suppress) its sales in favor of classroom style.
Solid-Spam Professor is seemingly getting wise to this and is spamming
direct to the end users and user groups now. I.Get.It has also been
around for a while, long enough to make all of this very old news.

This stuff is just good for basics.

Won't happen. It is rare to find resellers with enough technical
expertise to do something original and competent-looking, much less the
initiative to make it happen. The only initiative they have is sales
initiative. This is because the organization is run by salesmen who
don't understand technical and don't want the technical side to have
real clout. Jealousy? Stupidity? Well, we're talking about sales guys
here after all.

Electronic print formats have some real benefits like searchability, but
a lot of people like me would also like to have a book in their hand
that you can take to the loo or read on a plane, or put on the
nightstand. Plus, putting information in physical books is a great way
to deter would-be information thieves.

Daisy.

 

Just to clarify, podcast has nothing to do with apple or the ipod. It
is a common misconception. A podcast is a "subscription" to audio or
video files. Just like a subscription to the newspaper. Everytime you
hook up your player (ipod, jukebox, home computer, whatever) the
podcast software syncs you up so that you have the latest version. Of
course you can still watch these individually on your computer just
like you can go to the corner store and buy the paper.

I disagree that videos are not a good source of information for
SolidWorks. Keep in mind that CAD is an extremely graphical oriented
program. Unlike spreadsheets, documents, accounting, etc, CAD relies
heavily on the use of a 3d design space and a host of functionality
that is extemely context sensitive. For example, you can create a
table of contents in every word document or add the values of some rows
in every excel document, but a lot of CAD is dependent on what your
model contains. Not to mention the four major environments, Sketch,
Part, Assembly, Drawing. A good way of thinking about it is this way.
If somebody has a problem in SolidWorks do you find it easier to write
them an email, tell them on the phone, or to show them? I think that
from reading this newsgroup you will often see posts that say "I don't
know how to write this in words" whereas showing would immediately be
clear.

This is where video podcasts would be a boon. If in addition to them
you could tie in a table contents as well as a transcription of the
lesson material for text based search it wold be an ideal environment
for teaching SolidWorks.

I agree with you that VAR's have very little incentive for podcasts
because they can easily be shared by users. And SolidWorks probably
has little incentive because removing a revenue stream from your
resellers is a 'bad thing.' But for an interested third party I think
it could be a viable business model. Just look at all the thoughtful
comments by users so far. You have started a great thread Ed!

I would disagree that podcasts are only good for "simple" things. In
fact I think the SW help covers all the "simple" stuff very well. It
is the complex operations that are difficult to convey with words that
really require something like a video.

As a final note I suppose that maintaining something like this would be
difficult. Adding content or updating content due to UI changes would
really be a pain. I suppose you could try to be clever and separate
the audio stream from the video stream and then try to create "handles"
to each video action so that changes can then easily by synced up to
the audio stream.

 

This is where video podcasts would be a boon. If in addition to them

I absolute agree that a good index is essential and is the weakness of
this approach so far. What is needed is a method to "jump" to a specif
file and "time" in a wave or podcast. Then we could be able to go back
and review the details when needed.

I believe that SW and the VARs have this perspective. However, the
bigger picture is that the most "effective" CAD system will ultimately
the the "winner" of the CAD market. And easily learning and being able
to effectively use all of the features of any CAD program is a huge
sales advantage. I believe that if SW had a very effective system for
this, that the income from the inproved sales would outweigh the loss
of revenue from classes. I just don't belive that the "class system"
is effective. I have asked our user group a few times, (which has some
long time SW users) about some of the more advanced features and there
just was not much of a response. My conclusion from this is that there
really is a big gap between the capabilities of SW and the user base.

I still have a valid license for Inventor. One thing that has happened
a couple of times is that I would go to an IV meeting where they would
be playing up some great "new" feature. I would then mention this at
the next SW user group meeting an invariably one of the guys from the
local VAR would say, "oh, SW has had that feature for X number of
years!". So, here is the competition, probably making sales on
features that SW Corp. has made investment in but have not received the
benefit of their work. The conclusion is that overall the "class
system" is jut not very effective.

Again, there are some very good examples of podcasts from
Mountain-Wave.com.

There have been some great comments and replies and while we may not
know the best way to solve the "training" issue, I believe that it is
very important for SW to come up with a a better system which could
have a tremendous impact on sales.


Ed

 

Wow Ed. Can of worms officially opened!



First let me say that this is definitely something that needs to be
discussed.

I love my VAR (no jokes please) but after attending quite a few MasterCam
training sessions it became evident that I would want to be learning SW on
my own. Bo said it perfectly, the class is only as good as its weakest
participant and I as well, while in the MC training course, became so fed up
with the people that thought that they could show up and "be taught" MC
without seemingly ever trying to use the software. I would spend an hour
after every class with the teacher to get answers to questions on things
that weren't covered in class because we ran out of time because of the one
guy who "just can't get this to trim!"



I did have a one year subscription to the I.Get.It website a while back, and
thought that it was very informative. For myself it was great because I
could get some training at my pace, right now, in the things that I don't do
everyday and I didn't have to go anywhere.



I also believe that the Podcasts could be of great benefit to the SW user
community. It always amazed me that the SW community didn't (don't) do more
in the way of tutorials. Coming from Rhino, there are many Rhino tuts all
over the internet. Now presumably there are more SW professionals and more
Rhino students, and as students maybe they have more time (?). I should also
say that there are people that are VERY selfless in their willingness to
make their discoveries public. Ed Eaton, Matt Lombard, Scott Baugh, Rob
Rodriquez and TOP (The Other Paul) are just a few that come to mind. But I
think that we all have an area that we are competent in, and could do a
little tutorial. I don't mean to say that this would take the place of
"training", formal or otherwise, but it would go a long way in being able to
find a "specialized" lesson when you needed one.



Just some ramblings,

Muggs

 

I agree with Flowerpot's comments about VAR's.
Their training and support is invaluable to newbies, and can be useful if
for example you have installation issues. However, for anyone with moderate
experience or better, the only useful tech support comes from someone who
has used the software day in day out for a year or two in industry, doing a
similar sort of modelling to yourself. These people are as rare as hen's
teeth at VAR's.

John H

 

Right. Thus the "overrated" comment. Old wine, new wineskin sort of thing.

I think the most effective types of documentation are those that combine
print and electronic formats. Recorded messages (of whatever format) on
their own are very limited. You have to take it at the pace of the
performer, and if they mis-speak or you can't understand their words,
you don't have text (printed or electronic) to clarify things. Also, an
index, glossary or table of contents is by definition a text based medium.

As the many SW users who have droned on and on pleading for a hardcopy
version of the Users Manual will attest, there is nothing like a real
book in your hands.

A great hybrid approach is found in the SW help files. That's really my
favorite. Text material for clarity and printability, and little
animations to illustrate a point.

There is another technology which has been available for some time, but
hasn't really caught on, Immersive's IPA, which is kind of the flipside
of the SW help. SW Help is text based with embedded animation, but IPA
is interactive animation with embedded text. Kind of lacking on the
book-like portability scale, but extremely cool. It's far better than
any pre-recorded message, because its 3D interactive. You can rotate the
model and watch it move, with either audio or text.

I think in the end, the pre-recorded message type of help is a bit of a
novelty and has its uses, but it has all of the weaknesses of
instructor-based training and far more. The only advantage is being able
to watch something happen.

Until we can figure out how Harry Potter does those moving images in
newspapers and books, I think our best solution (for anything but the
most basic training) is a hybrid between print (paper or electronic) and
small focused animations/screen captures.

As much as the television generations would like to, you aren't going to
kill literacy in the modern age. The "Entertain me to keep me from
thinking or doing anything" attitude is killing us.

Daisy

 

As much as the television generations would like to, you aren't going to

My experience with text manuals is that some description of a procedure
will be given and I have been know to spend considerable amounts of
time trying to find the "magic" button. The videos totally eliminate
these frustrations because I can see which menu item/ slide out etc.
that the text is describing. There is also an issue with describing
"selection points" on the parts or assemblies.... Many times the
descriptions for such things can be pretty long and complicated where a
picture is clear. And the slide bar allows the viewer to see same set
of actions a number of times if needed.

Ed

 

After going through two training sessions, I agree. Our company will spend
no more money training with the VAR. The last experience was awful and a
tremendous waste of time and money.