How are you using the Sheet Set Manager

I've emailed this to Robert Green for some input and thought i would try this forum also

How are companies using the Sheet Set Manager (SSM) ? At what level are they taking the SSM ? Is all the work in setting up the callout and label blocks really worth it. Renumber whole sheets is easy, but can you move one detail from a sheet to another and not loose the link. What's the "View List" and category for other than internal organization ? This is a lot to digest and I would really like to hear from someone else.

I've done all of the tutorials. Read magazine's, including your May Catalyst article. I have been searching the internet and my CAD soul to come up with a way to use the SSM to it's limit but yet make it as simple as possible to use. Most everything I find so far is the basics. How to use the SSM wizard with your existing projects, How to use the fields in title blocks and sheet indexes. I've also found some things (very little) on how to setup the linked callouts and labels.

This I know for sure! There are (3) levels in which to use the SSM.

Level 1 - Out of the Box Sheet Management (basically your May column)

Creating sheet sets with the wizard using our existing drawings mirrors the way our production folders and files already setup. Our file and layout tab naming all falls right into place with the wizard. I use the publish feature, including saving our sheet sets for future publishing. My thought that’s easy the SSM as just an extension of the publish command.

Level 2 - Advanced Sheet Set Manager

This is using the sheet set manager just short of using fields for title blocks and linked callouts. In a nut shell you are creating your models with resource drawings and placing named model space views on to paper space (predefined sheet and/or project specific template).

Resource files are building models, plans, elevations and sections. The resource files will not have title blocks, layouts etc.. and their file names will be more of a description of what that drawing is, foundation, framing etc.

The plotted sheets that are listed in the "Sheet List" tab will be just that, for plotting only. Even at this level using the SSM requires some thinking about project templates, file names, view naming etc…..As for what entitles are really drawn in the "Sheet List" plotted drawings, very little. At this point you're not using fields so I don't know why you would be using the "View List" tab. I know what it does and how to create categories but I obviously don’t get this tab until you are renaming and numbering with callouts and labels. Maybe that's the point you don’t' have to use this tab until you get to Level 3.

Level 3 - Sheet Set Manager on Roids

It's Level 1 + Level 2 all rolled together = Level 3. At this point you are more than just drawing lines but coordinating your drawing set with more than just the command line, folders and filenames. You are linking your drawings thru a conduit (the Sheet Set Manager Palette) to each other and taking advantage of linked, updated fields. I do think this is "complex" or above and beyond what an average "CAD Operator" has been doing for the past few years.

Now there is hidden time in these drawings that is not seen as lines and text, but as pregame setup to get to the game. I really have to look at changing the way we develop and put together our drawings. Yes I have standards, customized menu's, lisp etc…..All of which will be used again but will have to be massaged and redirect to put our drawings together in a linked (smart) set of drawings.

I want to go to Level 3 and I would like some feedback from anybody before I proceed. So if you are not tired of reading this email let me share some of the road blocks I have come across and see if you've come to them yourself and maybe you can or someone else can shed some light on which way to go.

Plan and elevation sheets are the no brainer. I have this under control. Create resource drawings of plans with simples names for files and views.

Detail sheets that’s another story.

History lesson first. Currently I draw a sheet's worth of details in model space, including the label blocks, then make one view in paper space. It get's a little more involved with multiple dimscales. Actually I create our details drawings applying Joseph Reams' "Detail, Details and More Details" class from Autodesk University 2002.

So with that in mind applying this to the Level 3 doesn't work out all that well. Here's why. I can put 20 details on plot sheet "A" but I've drawn 25 details in the resource file. For linking I need 25 named model space views. Now I start dropping these views on to paper space and place the label block. Which in turn I now place the callout block on the plan using the "View List" tab (see now this tab makes since). Not all of the details are on sheets yet, so I start a new sheet "B" placing the remaining 5 details and coord them on the plan with callouts.

This is where problems start to happen. I want to replace detail 3 on sheet "A" with detail 1 from sheet "B".

The easy one first. I remove detail 1 from sheet "B". I use the "View List" and re-number sheet "B". Save the drawing and all of the plan callouts are updated and sheet "B" is done.

Now, how do I get detail 1 from sheet "B" to sheet "A" without loosing the link. I can cut and paste from "B" to "A" ? No I can't it's lost it's link.
I have place the detail on the sheet from scratch and apply the callout on the plan all over again. If it's one detail and one callout fine but if it's one detail and the callout has been placed multiple times on more than one plan I have to re-place all of the callouts again. This doesn't see right ? I've "re-pathed the link from plan callout to a moved detail but again if there are 20 plan callouts you have to do this 20 times ? What am I missing.

How do you move a detail from one sheet to another without breaking the link and having to start from scratch, in particular replacing multiple plan callouts of the same label reference.

Let's look at a few other things I am currently doing that doesn't work well to get to the Level 3.

If I have 3 resource drawings with 25 details in each. I can place 20 of these details on 4 plotted sheets. I start plucking details onto sheets and now any one sheet can have up to 3 resource drawings xrefed in to make up that one plotted sheet. Is that good or bad. What are you using for view names in the resource drawings ?

Now let's take a look at a new plan of attack for detail sheets.

Draw each detail and save as it's own file. 100 details = 100 files. Have the model space view name match the file name. I can pluck these details on to sheets to my hearts content. This makes it so that only the details that are on the plotted sheets are only the details xrefed in. I match my "View List" category per plotted sheet so I can see which files are on what plotted sheet. I can plot books of details on 8 1/2 x 11 having the details in individual files and I can mix and match details on sheets as needed.

But I still can not move a detail from one sheet to another without breaking the link.

I could go on about this topic but I'll stop there. Any feed back would be appreciated.

 

I cannot help sorry. But I would like to read this again later. I am ready to impliment 2005 in the office but before I do I need to understand ssm and I have no time for down time to get it done.

 

Hi,

I have just been going through everything you just stated Hoogli and I agree, there is next to zero 'out there' on the a-z of setting up this ssm system.

To be honest, our customisation we run at work is close to your 'level 2' ssm. But i am keen to see the benifits of linking details and sheets and moving them from sheet to sheet and seeing the labels follow.

I am surprised that autodesk has not gone into more depth on the linking side.

After reading everyhting you have listed below and pulling apart the samples autodesk provide, I am still rather lost.

what is everyone else doing?

My worst fear is that AutoCAD 2006 (which should be out by september 2004 lol) might scrap this because of limited takup from the users and maybe even worse, changet he dst file so you have to make everything again for it to work.

answers? answers? please

 

cool feed back

i have also posted this same message in the augi forums

i hope devon's wrong and they don't remove the ssm i see to many up sides to this and hopefully autodesk will continue to develope and make it easier

i have seen demo's of the ADT product and if i remember correct that uses the theory of resource drawings with saved named view placed on pretitle blocked sheets in paperspace
with annotation being placed is paperspace at a 1 to 1 scale in lieu of using dimscales

also

if you have seen the revit product (which i think is assume and the future for AEC) the ssm is taken right out of that book ! you create a real building model and cut and paste all the individual pieces to create a set of construction documents. the puzzle pieces

ok back to the ssm

devon our current customization and work process leads us right into the level 2 ssm so for me i am really looking forward to building on the ssm

ok let's throw a few item's out there that why i think the ssm is moving a little slow especially when we are thinking of putting together a good game plan

- i've never seen real numbers but i have heard only 25% of autocad licenses are on subscription. so to me only 25% of users have 2005 loaded

- for some reason autodesk wants you to draw or should i say annotate in paperspace. in the case of the ssm label and callout blocks default to being placed in paperspace. this i think is due to having to manage the "dimscale" of these annotations which just about every company seems to due differently. so with that in mind there is a real shift in how you will annotate your drawings. even in my case i have to really rethink how and when i make the shift to the level 3 "linked fields"

- i know that we are using paperspace and xrefing correct and just need to take it to the next level i still don't see paperspace and xrefing being practiced consistently between companies and until a good game plan is introduced at that level than the ssm is even more difficult to get a game plan together. i receive drawings everyday with no paperspace used and xrefing of drawings without simply using 0,0 or drawing in the positive quadrant