Hole Wizard Callouts

Sure this has been here b4 but here I go again...

Which file do I need to hack to add some default information to the hole
wizard callouts placed on prints..

My machinist would like to have the drill size I.E. 7/16, Q, etc on the
print when there is a tapped hole. I don't mind having this and have been
adding it manually.. to much work, but need to keep the machine people
happy.. I was there at one time.

Is there a data file I can add this info to so I don't have to keep adding
it for each print?

stubs,

 

Stubs,

C:\SolidWorks\lang\english\calloutformat.txt. I suggest backing it up
before changing.

Reaper.

 

Stubs,

Reaper,

I don't think there is a parameter to give numbered or lettered drill
sizes. Only the nominal drill size. I suspect the reason why is implicit
below.

Stubs,

Every other machinist on the planet can use a drill size chart. You might
let them know that we think you have lazy / incompetent machinists now.

Furthermore, it's bad, possibly incorrect, drawing practice to specify how
to make a feature unless there is a special need to specify the process.
The drawing should only specify size and tolerance. Specifying the letter
size is specifying which tool to use.

I'm all for making life easy for the machinists, but this is going too far.
Someone has to look up these brain damaged lettered sizes on a chart, and
from what I've seen, it has always bee nthe man at the machine. There is a
possibility that I haven't seen it all though.

 

Stubs,

You putting drill size on the prints is an unnecessary opportunity for
error to creep into your process. Also on a 1/4-20 thread a #8, #7 or
even 13/64" drills could possibly be used depending upon a few
variables in the shop that you have no control over. Then take into
account that cut taps and form taps require different hole sizes.

If you are dimensioning cut taps what happens down the road if your
company decides to use form taps? What happens if they decide to use
form taps on some materials and cut taps on the balance? Don't think
it is the machinist who will have to revise all those drawings.

IMO Prints should have dimensions and tolerances for the part and
Manufacturing/Machining then decides how best to make it. If they are
working with CAM then that program should output the machine tool
setup sheet with all the tool information needed. If they can't
configure the CAM program to output the drill number/letter/fraction
they can always input the information into a note field and output
that information in the job setup sheet.

Kudos to you for wanting to be a team player and make life easier for
others, however in this one case IMO they may not be looking at the
overall picture and it may very well come back to bite you in the ass
later on down the road.

Tom

 

Your machinist is lazy or is trying to keep you out of his hair by
making you waste time. Tell him you are not going to waste your time /
clutter up your prints with fucking bullshit. If you want to be nice
offer to order him a tap drill chart and for form tapping get him some
charts from Balax. If he doesn't like that tell him tough shit.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

The parameter for the fractional, number or letter size in a Hole
Chart/Hole Callout from a Hole Wizard hole is <hw-fstsze> I use it
all the time in my hole charts.

From the very bottom of the calloutformat.txt file.......


*Valid Hole Wizard variables are as follows:
*VARIABLE DESCRIPTION*
*<hw-type> Type
*<hw-std> Standard
*<hw-fsttyp> Fastener Type
*<hw-fstsze> Fastener Size
*
*<hw-cbdepth> Counterbore Depth
*<hw-cbdia> Counterbore Diameter
*<hw-cdrlang> Counterdrill Angle
*<hw-cdrldepth> Counterdrill Depth
*<hw-cdrldia> Counterdrill Diameter
*<hw-csang> Countersink Angle
*<hw-csdia> Countersink Diameter
*<hw-depth> Depth
*<hw-diam> Diameter
*<hw-drlang> Drill Angle
*<hw-endcond> End Condition
*<hw-fscsang> Far Side Countersink Angle
*<hw-fscsdia> Far Side Countersink Diameter
*<hw-headclr> Head Clearance
*<hw-holedia> Hole Diameter
*<hw-holedepth> Hole Depth
*<hw-mjrdia> Major Diameter
*<hw-midcsang> Middle Countersink Angle
*<hw-midcsdia> Middle Countersink Diameter
*<hw-minordia> Minor Diameter
*<hw-nscsang> Near Side Countersink Angle
*<hw-nscsdia> Near Side Countersink Diameter
*<hw-tapdrldepth> Tap Drill Depth
*<hw-tapdrldia> Tap Drill Diameter
*<hw-threadang> Thread Angle
*<hw-threaddepth> Thread Depth
*<hw-threaddesc> Thread Description
*<hw-threaddia> Thread Diameter
*<hw-threadseries> Thread Series
*<hw-threadsize> Thread Size
*<hw-thruholedepth> Thru Hole Depth
*<hw-thruholedia> Thru Hole Diameter
*<hw-thrutapdrldp> Thru Tap Drill Depth
*<hw-thrutapdrldia> Thru Tap Drill Diameter
*
*<hw-descrp> Description



Cheers,

Anna Wood

 

Whoops check that.... I do not put the tap drill size in the hole
chart. Our machinists know that info of the top of their head, we
don't need to tell them that. Might be offended if we engineering
types tried to tell them how to do their job.....

There is a variable in the list below called <hw-tapdrldia> Tap Drill
Diameter which if you want can be added to the calloutformat.txt file
to control how your hole callouts are presented in a hole chart or
hole callout. It probably only presents the decimal equivelant
though.

Cheers,

Anna Wood

 

Stubs,

I agree with the others. It is not only unnecessary to put the drill
size ID. It is actually unnecessary to even state the drill size
diameter itself. This is in accordance with a certain interpretation
of ASME Y14.5M-1994 which includes the understanding that it is
improper to over-specify a part, and improper to define processes on a
drawing. Another reason is that if you do over-specify, you limit the
machinist choices (as stated before). Even another reason, is that
the more information you add the more chance you have at introducing
error (typo or mis-info). All you need to callout is the thread
itself. In the rare event one finds it necessary to define drill
depth, simply add a statement about such without stating drill size.

2X 8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165

-OR-

2X DRILL DEPTH .190
8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165

-NOT-

2X .190 DIA DEPTH .190
8-32 UNC-2B DEPTH .165
Matt Lorono
http://sw.fcsuper.com
http://www.fcsuper.com

 

All,

Well these are all good reasoned logic and I thank you. I do agree that a
good machinist can call up the drill size for a 'standard' tap from memory.
I can still do almost 95% and it's been a few years. BUT,

I did inherit this Solidworks setup from the previous engineer so maybe it
is setup wrong. The 'default' way this dimensions holes from the hole wizard
is::
2x @ .201 dp .750
1/4-20 UNC dp .500

What I've been adding..
2x @ .201(#7) dp .750
1/4-20 UNC dp .500

What I would like:
2x @ .#7 dp .750
1/4-20 UNC dp .500

I was looking for a way to setup Solidworks to do this for me.

Not only does my machinist see this as a specified size for the drill it
also closes the tolerance factor to a point where he wonders about reaming..
Seems weird but there it is. I also have had outside vendors question me if
' do all these dimensions have to be three places..?'
Guess I'm surrounded by idiots..

I don't mind the drill size being called out, in fact I like to have it on
the print. It does let the machinist know what to use and what I want it
drilled at.

I work in a small support shop that builds and maintains production
machines for a manufacturer. I rarely have to send anything out. If I do
most for the time it's to one or two tool and die shops that can and will
get down to four place decimal tolerance machining even if I give them a
fractional dimensioned drawing on a napkin... Old School Machine Work..

Thanks for the suggestions, will keep looking..

stubs

 

If I do most for the time it's to one or two tool and die shops that can and will

A good machinist uses the tolerance to his advantage enabling him or
her to get the work done faster. Machinists like you describe would
never make it in the shops I have worked in. They would be too slow
and cost the shop too much money.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

Studs,

If you are making process drawings for a shop in-house, then I can see
why you might wish to add this kind of information. With that said,
even on process drawings, it still is bad practice. If you are
invoking ASME Y14.5M on your drawing, you are in violation of that
standard (oh the horror of it all!). Seriously though, calling
this out is a bit like calling out "FORM THIS PART WITH LATHE AWD IN
THE CORNER OF THE MACHINE". It's not appropriate.

Each way, I do believe Anna answered your question in-directly. I do
not believe SolidWorks has an automatic method to insert the tool
information into your callout. Although it does know drill sizes, it
doesn't provide them to you in a callout of threaded holes. You could
create a macro that does this for you at the end of a drawing
preparation. You would need a table, like in excel or csv file as a
look up table. And also, you'll need to know how to traverse through
the drawing with SelectionManager.

Best of luck!

Matt Lorono
http://sw.fcsuper.com
http://www.fcsuper.com/swblog

 

first, a drawing should only show the end reuslt of what you are
designing, nothing more. if the shop you are using wants to ut a
thread with a titanium toothpick, then so be it. all you should be
worried about is that the end result is acurate.

second ASME Y14.5M - 1994 is a guideline. read 1.1 of the manual. it
states "This standard establishes practices for stating and
interpeting dimensions ..." practices means that you are not forced
to do all initiatives in the manual. this is also reviewed by a
couple of the people on the subcommittee (Norm Cutler and DR. Don
Sheperd) and this is their interpretation also. And it was the first
item that they wanted to point out when using this standard in their
training sessions.

by the way, if you are interested in formal training, Don Sheperd is
an excelent trainer for GD&T and is well worth the cost. you may not
totally agree with all he states, but even my group uses most of his
concepts in their everyday useage of GD&T. And the machine shops that
we simultaniously trained with were impressed with his level of
knoledge of GD&T, its application and applying inspection
methodology. iQ

 

You seem to equate precision with slow.. to bad. I'm guessing you have never
worked for a government contractor. Not only were the tap hole sizes spec'
out but there were plug gauges for before and after the tapping operation..
A good machinist hits the dimension called out on the print. The tolerance
is there to allow some fiddle room for fit. Not to allow the machinist to
get sloppy..

 

Studs,

If you are making process drawings for a shop in-house, then I can see
why you might wish to add this kind of information. With that said,
even on process drawings, it still is bad practice. If you are
invoking ASME Y14.5M on your drawing, you are in violation of that
standard (oh the horror of it all!). Seriously though, calling
this out is a bit like calling out "FORM THIS PART WITH LATHE AWD IN
THE CORNER OF THE MACHINE". It's not appropriate.

Each way, I do believe Anna answered your question in-directly. I do
not believe SolidWorks has an automatic method to insert the tool
information into your callout. Although it does know drill sizes, it
doesn't provide them to you in a callout of threaded holes. You could
create a macro that does this for you at the end of a drawing
preparation. You would need a table, like in excel or csv file as a
look up table. And also, you'll need to know how to traverse through
the drawing with SelectionManager.

Best of luck!

Matt Lorono
http://sw.fcsuper.com
http://www.fcsuper.com/swblog


Guess I'm to old and sheltered don't seem to know what ASME Y14.5M is. Will
have to look it up and see what I've been doing wrong all these years. Maybe
that's why some of the newer guys cuss at me..
Thanks for answering my question. I will have to dig out my old VB books and
the SW API info and start coding..

stubs

 

You seem to equate precision with slow.. to bad.

It's too bad you still don't have a fucking clue despite all those in
this thread telling you much more politely than I am that you're a
fucking idiot.

Done plenty of it.

A good machinist knows how to make best use of the tolerance and
doesn't waste time doing something fucking stupid like drilling and
boring a hole when he can interpolate the hole with an end mill and
still make the part to print.

The only thing sloppy is your utter lack of understanding on how to
use tolerance.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

What are you 12 years old?
I want to see how you interpolate on a manual mill.. you know those things
with handles on them that move the table axis back and forth..
Yes there are some shops that still use them..

 

I want to see how you interpolate on a manual mill.. you know those things

Sure we still have a few. Like most shops with a clue who want to stay
in business we were smart enough to retrofit ours. They probably paid
for themselves in six months or less.

http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/prod_retrofit.shtml

for boat anchors. ;>)

Let me guess your "machinists" still spot drill all holes with a
tolerance of +/- .005 instead of using a 135° split point screw
machine drill.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

No, they make drills with 135° spilt points.. We have managed to move
over to those and two flute gun taps for most of the work. There are two
Haas VF3's in the shop but their used on the production parts.. All the
maintenance machinist has is one old Bridgeport mill and a Causing lathe..
owners are a bit cheap when to get to replacing stuff that still works..
Of course if we could retrofit the mill we would have to retrain the old guy
that runs time.. no thanks there are days when he can out run the CNC's

Sure we still have a few. Like most shops with a clue who want to stay
in business we were smart enough to retrofit ours. They probably paid
for themselves in six months or less.

http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/prod_retrofit.shtml

for boat anchors. ;>)

Let me guess your "machinists" still spot drill all holes with a
tolerance of +/- .005 instead of using a 135° split point screw
machine drill.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

maintenance machinist has is one old Bridgeport mill and a Causing lathe..

You don't replace your machine (unless it's totally shot). It's a
retrofit to your existing machine. If the owners want a valuable
machinist like this using a machine that's totally unproductive they
must be smoking crack. I've trained many older machinists like this
with no computer or CNC experience to use a Prototrak in just a few
hours. The Prototrak is conversational and you don't need to know G
code or be comfortable with a computer. If you can use a DRO you can
use a Prototrak. Don't tell me the machine he's using doesn't even
have a DRO or I'm really going to lose it. After a few weeks of your
machinist using a Prototrak retrofit you won't be able to get him to
go back to using a manual knee mill because it's so much easier and so
much more productive to use a Prototrak. The owners of your company
are costing themselves a ton of money by not retrofitting a 2 axis
Prototrak or equivalent.

Jon Banquer
San Diego,CA

 

Funny.