I know exactly what you mean. And that is exactly why I was asking for help. I was a welder / fitter years back for a couple of years and I put together drawings that most mechanical engineer would say are useless, but the fabricators say it's exactly what they need. The few years I worked in fabrication gave me the knowledge to know what is needed in the shop and what is a waste of ink and paper. I left early yesterday and shut off my computer so the ftp was down. I've started it back up so you can download them ftp://66.147.53.58/ or send me your email at jason@(NOSPAM)deltank.com Thanks.