Hello all, I have a non-planar surface with a circular-ish hole in it (not a true circle and not on a plane). I would like to fill this hole to make the surface continuous. Can you describe the procedure to do so? Sorry if this sounds like a simplistic request--I'm a newbie to surfacing and don't even know where to start. Thanks in advance. ProE 2001
: I'm a newbie, too, and using Wildfire (with no knowledge of earlier : versions) so don't know if this will be any help.... Interior trim : boundaries can be removed during a surface copy operation (there's a Fill : Hole option). They can also be removed on imported surfaces as part of a : Heal Geometry / Manual operation. If that's not possible I think I'd trim : out the circular hole with a four sided shape and do a Boundary Blend : (though that might not be the best way to do it). Hope this isn't sending : you on a wild goose chase. : In the proper circumstances, these are all good and powerful tools. What I'm not clear on is just what those circumstances are. How complex is the surface? Is it a collection of patches? Should that hole even be there or is it a surface rip? So, for trouble shooting or working with other people's models, it's good thing to turn on all the layers so you can see how the surface is constructed, get all that datum curve, point and axis rigging visible. Make sure nothing is suppressed in the model tree. Quickly scan through the Model Tree to see if it is a separate hole, cut or trim feature. Failing finding it this way, use 'Tools>Model player' to see how the thing was constructed by 'playing' it, feature by feature, backwards or by running it back to the beginning and playing it forward. If the 'hole' is part of a single surface, it may be possible just to eliminate some curves; same if it was a surface trim using projected curves. When you find *where* the hole was created, dig into that feature with the 'Fix model' button. This kicks you into a Menu Manager interface option called Failure Resolution mode. Try Quick Fix>Redefine to get you into the feature definition. Or use the 'Fix Model' menu, then 'Feature>Delete' to just delete the feature, or 'Investigate>Show ref' to make sure this critter ain't got kids that'll cry help if you kill its daddy. Some of the most worthwhile tools to learn are those that let you figure things out for yourself. When you are more and more able to trouble shoot problems to accomplish engineering changes or features failures during modification, you'll feel less and less like a newbie. Until they hit you with a new rev and you're lost again. David Janes
I'm not in front of the PC with Pro right now, but if my memory is correct the surface was copied from a solid that had a screw clearance hole in it. The solid was a complex shape (not planar) and the hole edges were not planar. The hole is part of a single surface. I suppose I can project curves onto this surface and then patch the hole. I just didn't even know where to start. A lot of the surfacing commands look similar (or have cryptic names) and the help file is somewhat weak.
Hello If your surface is surface of solid and your hole has bottom, then you can use Tweak/Replace tu fill it. First you have to copy non-planar surface and then replace the bottom surface vith it. Petteri
: : : > : > : I'm a newbie, too, and using Wildfire (with no knowledge of earlier : > : versions) so don't know if this will be any help.... Interior trim : > : boundaries can be removed during a surface copy operation (there's a : Fill : > : Hole option). They can also be removed on imported surfaces as part of : a : > : Heal Geometry / Manual operation. If that's not possible I think I'd : trim : > : out the circular hole with a four sided shape and do a Boundary Blend : > : (though that might not be the best way to do it). Hope this isn't : sending : > : you on a wild goose chase. : > : : > In the proper circumstances, these are all good and powerful tools. What : I'm not : > clear on is just what those circumstances are. How complex is the surface? : Is it a : > collection of patches? Should that hole even be there or is it a surface : rip? So, : > for trouble shooting or working with other people's models, it's good : thing to : > turn on all the layers so you can see how the surface is constructed, get : all that : > datum curve, point and axis rigging visible. Make sure nothing is : suppressed in : > the model tree. Quickly scan through the Model Tree to see if it is a : separate : > hole, cut or trim feature. Failing finding it this way, use 'Tools>Model : player' : > to see how the thing was constructed by 'playing' it, feature by feature, : > backwards or by running it back to the beginning and playing it forward. : If the : > 'hole' is part of a single surface, it may be possible just to eliminate : some : > curves; same if it was a surface trim using projected curves. When you : find : > *where* the hole was created, dig into that feature with the 'Fix model' : button. : > This kicks you into a Menu Manager interface option called Failure : Resolution : > mode. Try Quick Fix>Redefine to get you into the feature definition. Or : use the : > 'Fix Model' menu, then 'Feature>Delete' to just delete the feature, or : > 'Investigate>Show ref' to make sure this critter ain't got kids that'll : cry help : > if you kill its daddy. : > : > Some of the most worthwhile tools to learn are those that let you figure : things : > out for yourself. When you are more and more able to trouble shoot : problems to : > accomplish engineering changes or features failures during modification, : you'll : > feel less and less like a newbie. Until they hit you with a new rev and : you're : > lost again. : > : > David Janes : > : > : I'm not in front of the PC with Pro right now, but if my memory is correct : the surface was copied from a solid that had a screw clearance hole in it. : The solid was a complex shape (not planar) and the hole edges were not : planar. The hole is part of a single surface. I suppose I can project curves : onto this surface and then patch the hole. I just didn't even know where to : start. A lot of the surfacing commands look similar (or have cryptic names) : and the help file is somewhat weak. : In that case, Jeff's first suggestion is probably best: surface copy with a 'fill loop' which fills in the hole. Continuity (smooth blending) on cut and patched surfaces is always a challenge. DJ
If the surface was made in ProE as a copy you could reorder it to go before the screw clearance hole. Then there won't be a hole. If you have to patch it, make a boundary surface. Do a projected datum curve in the shape of a square or rectangle projected onto the surface. In one direction, pick opposite sides of the rectangle as boundaries 1 and 2, and in the 2nd direction do likewise for the other two sides of the rectangle. In "Bndry Conds", give each boundary tangency conditions, or if that doesn't work, at least 2 boundaries in one direction. The command do make this feature is: First Dir - Add item - Chain - One by One (select one side of rectangle)Done (repeat for opposite side) done (it will say "define curve 3 or Pick Done). Pick Second Dir - Add item - Chain - One by One (pick adjacent sides of rectangle) etc, then Done curves. Then pick boundary conditions like I said. There's your surface. This is in 2001 which it seems you have.
The edges of the circle will likely be represented by two half-circular arcs, which will have two vertices. Create a datum curve thru points, picking the points of these two vertices. Add tangency conditions at the start and end so that the curves are tangent to the non-planar surface. Create surface by boundaries, blended surface option. Pick datum curve as one boundary, pick edge of one half-circle as 2nd boundary. Add tangency condition on 2nd edge boundary to be tangent to surrounding non-planar surface. Repeat surface by boundaries on 2nd half-circle, only on curve boundary, make tangent to other half-circle surface. Merge two surfaces by joining them together, using Surface-Merge-Join. Then merge this circular quilt to the rest of the surface. Lee
Thanks to everyone for your replies! I was able fill the holes using the remove interior boundaries. Now i'm working on some other challenging surface manipulation trying to extend the edges of the surface past the solid from which it was derived.
: The edges of the circle will likely be represented by two : half-circular arcs, which will have two vertices. Create a datum : curve thru points, picking the points of these two vertices. Add : tangency conditions at the start and end so that the curves are : tangent to the non-planar surface. : : Create surface by boundaries, blended surface option. Pick datum : curve as one boundary, pick edge of one half-circle as 2nd boundary. : Add tangency condition on 2nd edge boundary to be tangent to : surrounding non-planar surface. : : Repeat surface by boundaries on 2nd half-circle, only on curve : boundary, make tangent to other half-circle surface. : : Merge two surfaces by joining them together, using Surface-Merge-Join. : Then merge this circular quilt to the rest of the surface. : So, two first direction curves touching each other at end points can make a boundary blend surface. Interesting, I'll have to try this, because if someone had asked me if it could be done, I probably would have said no. If it works, this is a very good thing to know. David Janes
I don't know what the exact name of the command is, because i'm not in front of the pc with ProE right now (no newsgroup access at work). There is an option when you create (copy) a surface from a solid to remove interior voids. I'll write down the command and post later today.
This technique works great for half-circles or half-ellipses. Only drawback with the method is that the surface is sometimes difficult to offset if you have a need to do so. You can also create another datum curve to split the circle into 4 quarter-circles, and do each quarter one at a time if desired. Lee
: Pro/Bondo and Pro/Filler!! sorry, couldn't help it.. 8^) : Hey, don't forget Pro/SANDPAPER and Pro/SCRAPER! Don't want to leave that Bondo lumpy. DJ
Yeah, and although we joke about this, it's been a evolving reality.. http://www.sensable.com/ http://www.etouch3d.org/ http://www.qldacademy.org.au/Events/sam bucolo and nathan chan paper.htm ...
: This technique works great for half-circles or half-ellipses. Only : drawback with the method is that the surface is sometimes difficult to : offset if you have a need to do so. This may be related to a less striking drawback, namely, limitations on the degree of continuity you can enforce this way. Even with endpoint tangency on the one created curve set to tangency and curvature, I couldn't get the round surface boundary set to curvatvure. It just wouldn't generate a surface with continuity set that high. So, surface analysis (Gaussian, highlight, porcupine) reveals the discontinuity. This may be related to the fact that, for the first patch, there is nothing to set the tangency to at the created curve boundary. When I created a datum ribbon along this curve and tried to set the surface boundary tangent to it, a surface wouldn't generate. : : You can also create another datum curve to split the circle into 4 : quarter-circles, and do each quarter one at a time if desired. : This may help, I know it does in ISDX. With Wildfire, now you can create a three sided patch. Just pick three first direction curves. The problem is still that first patch ~ what do you set the boundary at those two created curves tangent to. I've thought of trying some other things, like creating some offset curves, using the hole boundary or projecting some curves on the surface and using those instead of the hole edge. One last point: for those familiar with Pro/e's curve creation functionality, you might have noticed that the selection of curves available by clicking the curves icon is limited to just four methods ~ thru points, from equation, use xsec and from file. I think the rest can be found at 'Edit>Offset'. David Janes
: Yeah, and although we joke about this, it's been a evolving reality.. : : http://www.sensable.com/ : http://www.etouch3d.org/ : http://www.qldacademy.org.au/Events/sam bucolo and nathan chan paper.htm : Very cool stuff! But I thought Maya already had these abilities, maybe everything but the haptic interface.
: : I suppose I can project curves : onto this surface and then patch the hole. I just didn't even know where to : start. That was an excellent place to start. Here is the best patching technique that I found, after some experimentation: Begin, as you did, with 'projected' curves. Only, these curves are formed somewhat differently. I'm using Wildfire, but I kind of remember the steps in 2001. First, you're going to create an offset curve by selecting the hole edges (highlight one so that it turns thick red, hold down the shift key until tangent shows then pick the other half of the hole). With the hole edges selected, go to 'Edit>Offset'. (The order is reversed in earlier versions which are governed by the action/object model: you go through some menus like 'Create' or 'Insert', then pick 'Curve' or 'Datum Curve' or 'Model Datum' and pick the type, like 'Offset from edges', then select the edges). When you have the edges of the hole selected and pick 'Edit>Offset', you should immediately, upon entering the Dashboard interface, be given a curve, offset from the original edges, by a default amount. Change the the amount of offset so that it about doubles the hole size and click OK (green check mark). You now have a curve built on your original surface. This is a very solid foundation for your next curve, the curve 'thru points'. The offset curve was divided into two half circles, each with vertices that can be selected as 'points' in 'thru points' curves. In this case, though, we are, again, going to do something a little different. When you create this curve (WF 'Insert>Model Datum>Curve>Thru points' or 2001 'Insert>Datum Feature>Curve>Thru points'), it still begins in a Menu Manager style interface. But, instead of ignoring the 'Attributes' option which defaults to 'Free', we are going to double click this to get this option's menu. Here, we have a choice between 'Free' and 'Quilt/Suf'. We will pick 'Quilt/Surf' because it creates a 'thru points curve on surface', then click Done. Then, selecting 'Curve Points' from the options meu, we pick the end points of the half circles by moving the cursor over the circular curve perimeter where we'll be shown the vertex endpoints of the half-circles. We will pick one on each side of the circle. When we have both vertices selected, the start arrow pointing 'into' the curve and the start and end point arrows going the same way, we select Done. This is all that is needed to begin the creation of two 'boundary blend' surfaces. Optional, possibly for later experimentation: Then, we go on to the 'Tangency' menu. Here we set each curve end point to surface tangent. While the 'Start' and 'End' options default to 'Crv/Edge/Axis', we will pick 'Surface' as the item to which the curve will remain tangent. Then, select the surface it is lying on. Since this 'curve thru points' is effectively a surface curve, we are able to set an additional curvature condition reflecting this degree of adherence to surface curvature by selecting 'Curvature' for each end. Boundary Blend Finally, we go on to creating the boundary surface as two half-circle patches, merge them and merge this with the main surface. In WF, the boundary blend surface has the new Dashboard interface which you get to by selecting 'Insert>Boundary Blend'. In the Dashboard, the first thing is to select the two curves. With the first 'collector' box highlighted, select first the outside curve, then the cross curve. If an amber colored patch appears, you're in business. Next, click on the 'Edge Alignment' button to get the input boxes for surface boundary type. The two curves are listed in the order they were picked. Each line shows the current condition, probably set to 'Free'. Click on this box, so that the drop down list appears and select 'Curvature'. This activates the input panel to the right, listing Entities and Surfaces. If the 'Surfaces' box is blank, pick the main surface. Then, select the next curve entry listed and pick the main surface again. Our new curves overlap the main surface enough to use it for its curvature. If all is well, we get a surface that lies 'perfectly' overlapping the original, with the hole completely covered. To see how well we've done, select the first patch and the second. The icon for 'Merge' should activate, so pick it. If 'mergeable', the surfaces should each change color, so pick Done. Merging the round patch with the main surface is a little more difficult. These surfaces do not intersect each other or simply connect. To do that, the overtlapping part of the original surface should be trimmed off. We can select this surface and use 'Edit>Trim' to get rid of the overlap. With the Dashboard active, select the offset curve to use for trimming. Now we can merge the outer, main surface and the inner circular patch. Select both surfaces, pick the 'Merge' icon and, when both surfaces turn color, click Done. To finish this, you should use the surface analysis tools (Gaussian, highlight, porcupine are my favorites) and check the continuity of the inner and outer surfaces. They should seem almost as one surface. I have found no smoother patching technique. David Janes
