Fun with Defpoints Layer

Hi,

This problem seems to come on when it feels like. Sometimes in does this and
sometimes doesn't.
Heres the problem. "I can't pick the object on defpoints layer".

Is there a hidden variable thats doing this? Can anyone help???

It is annoying at times.....i really would like to know what's causing this.

Thankyou in advance

SP

 

Layer defpoints mimics layer 0, if layer 0 is off or frozen, elements on layer defpoints are not selectable.

 

Reply From: OLD-CADaver
Date: Jan/20/05 - 06:24 (CST) NEW!

Re: Fun with Defpoints Layer
Layer defpoints mimics layer 0, if layer 0 is off or frozen, elements on layer defpoints are not selectable.
***************
Also, if defpoints layer is frozen, the objects are still visible, but not selectable.

 

Also, if defpoints layer is frozen, the objects are still visible, but not
selectable.

Not in 2004. If it's frozen, it's invisible like any other layer. It can
also be turned off independently of layer 0. But it is still unselectable if
layer 0 if off or frozen.

 

Hi Tom,

I should have mentioned that I am speaking for 2002 as this is an ambiguous NG "Drafting Techniques". I know OC is also working on 2002.

 

Ok, mabey I'm missing the point but....
Why would you want to select an object on the defpoints layer anyway?

 

Definition points are nothing more than the points for dimensions - use grips?

 

Elements other than dim definition points can be placed on the defpoints layer.

 

<<Why would you want to select an object on the defpoints layer anyway? >>

ummm... move it, copy it, stretch it, array it, erase it, scale it, basically for the same reasons you'd want to select any other element.

 

what is it?
and why is in on defpoints?
if its just so that it doesnt plot, then surely it should be on a layer created for that puropse, such a vports, or construction.
I have never ever drawn anything on defpoints.

 

The OP doesn't say, but I've placed a few things on layer DEFPOINTS for a couple of specific reasons.

Say a bundle pull-zone or a drop zone envelope needs to be reserved so that nothing interferes in the area. A 3DSOLID on layer defpoints won't plot, that’s a plus, but also, when that file is XREF’d into another file, the zone is visible unless the entire XREF is frozen. No one can “accidentally†freeze the drop zone and still work with the XREF.

 

Why would anyone want to do that?

 

The OP doesn't say, but I've placed a few things on layer DEFPOINTS for a couple of specific reasons.

Say a bundle pull-zone or a drop zone envelope needs to be reserved so that nothing interferes in the area. A 3DSOLID on layer defpoints won't plot, that’s a plus, but also, when that file is XREF’d into another file, the zone is visible unless the entire XREF is frozen. No one can “accidentally†freeze the drop zone and still work with the XREF.

 

I have never ever drawn anything on defpoints.

Well, then you must not have been running Acad for very long.

The defpoints layer existed for quite a few years before there was any other
available way of making a thing visible but non-plotting. For most of the
history of Acad, if you wanted a non-plotting object, your only option was
to put it on the defpoints layer, you had no other choice. Most people who
have been around Acad for any length of time eventually learned and used
this trick. The non-plotting layer property is a new twist which wasn't
available until just a few versions ago.

created for that puropse

Using the defpoints layer is still a valid way of accomplishing this, and
it's still the most convenient way, since the non-plotting layer is already
there -- you don't need to create a special layer for the purpose. For an
isolated object, or for a temporary purpose, there's no reason not to just
pop it on defpoints and move on. For a more elaborate drawing setup, sure,
it can make more sense to organize all your non-plotting elements onto
non-plotting layers.

Also, as OC notes, since defpoints mimics layer 0 in some ways, it's quite
unlikely that an object on defpoints will have its visibility obscured when
the drawing is xref'd into another. Very often, a non-plotting object is one
that is quite important (for coordination, reference, or whatever) and
mustn't be missed or forgotten, but isn't intended to be plotted.
Personally, I've sometimes used this to put a "don't forget!" note to myself
in the drawing file.

 

We have architect clients who quite regularly use a symbol on defpoints just
to give themselves a point for placing xrefs. Usually they do it when they
have multiple units xreffed into multiple (different) building layouts.
It's very handy for subs and they never have to worry about a reference
layer being turned on after they send drawings out.

Matt
"If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked
something."

 

To each his/her own, but I wouldn't put anything on the defpoints layer - I'd put it on a separate layer.

 

<<but I wouldn't put anything on the defpoints layer >>

Why not?


<<I'd put it on a separate layer.>>

As we do with most things. But that completely relinquishes control of that layer to the whim of a user downstream. Placing elements on layer defpoints places a tighter restriction on that element's visibility control. If you need to see the xref, you're going to see those elements, but at the same time those elements will not effect the plot.

 

See my reply to wookie earlier. Until recently, there was no other way in
Acad to make an element visible yet non-plotting. Being able to make other
layers non-plotting was high on the wish list for quite a long time before
Acad finally responded to the need.

Until then, using the special non-plotting property of the defpoints layer
was the only available trick to achieve this, and was widely used for the
purpose. This wasn't a matter of preference, but of necessity, until just a
few releases ago.

It's still a perfectly valid way to treat an isolated element, such as a
sheet border, in order to avoid the overhead of having an entire layer
dedicated to a single entity. It's also a convenient way to to include
temporary non-plotting information, such as a note to yourself. I often put
a defpoints cloud around part of a drawing, to remind myself to come back to
it later. Again, this avoids the overhead and bother of creating a temporary
non-plotting layer that will need cleaning up and purging later. And as OC
noted, it has unique visibility properties which can be advantageous in the
context of xrefs.

 

Another advantage with respects to xrefs is that using DEFPOINTS for
non-plot stuff doesn't add yet *another* 'referenced layer' to the morass of
layers you may end up with in the final set. Not a big deal, necessarily,
but every little bit helps.

One thing I use in some of my user-sizable blocks (such as columns and spot
footings) is a POINT placed at the center (Insertion point) of the block on
layer DEFPOINTS. Advantage to this is that when the drawing is referenced
elsewhere, I am still able to snap to NODE.

Best regards,
David Kozina

 

Sorry, OLD-CADaver, but what do you mean when you talk about "bundle pull-zone or drop zone"?

W. Kirk Crawford
Rochester Hills, Michigan