Can I get OverTime???

I have a question, most positions I've seen for a "Designer" have
stated salary plus overtime. I'm getting a promotions from a
designer/drafter to a designer, and my company is saying a designer
position is salary and they don't pay overtime. I'll be doing the
exact same job, just changing title and the pay increase is just over
my current base rate at 40 hours a week. Since I average about 2-3
hours a week of overtime, it will be a pay cut. Can they actually not
pay me for overtime, if I work more than 40 hours? Fair Labor
Standards Act state for managers, doctors, teachers, supervisors,
engineers, ("professionals") etc. do not have to get paid for
overtime. Does a "Designer" fall into this category?

Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

 

the reality of the situation is that, regardless of the relevant laws,
you're not going to get OT at that company. You might be able to force them
to pay you the OT, but I suspect that you'd soon find yourself unemployed if
you did....

That being said--negotiate a better salary for the new job before you take
it; they're going to have an awfully hard time justifying a promotion that
comes with a pay cut

 

Michael's advice is right on. If you can not get a base increase to
cover overtime, you will be getting a promotion with a pay cut. Often,
the company will counter with a promise of time off for overtime worked
but this promise is seldom honored.

Good Luck,

Dennis

 

I'll add my "Amen" to what Matt and Dennis wrote. But don't be bitter .
.. . it's just the way of the world. If you stay at 2 or 3 hours over 40
then count yourself lucky. But certainly you can ask the Human
Resources people for more compensation -- just don't be surprised if you
don't get any. Nowadays you're expected to give up three steps for
every two you take, and that's the way it is almost everywhere. Just go
see if you can find a seasoned salesman on commission who hasn't
increased his sales for a company at one time or another only to find
his company cutting back on his commission percentage. It ain't right,
but it's what you can expect from a society of individuals who've been
taught that "me first" is the correct way of looking at everything.

'Spork'
"But I would not feel so all alone . . . EVERYBODY must get stoned."

 

After a quick look at the article, it looks like the proposal is to update

your literal reading is correct, if incomplete--

the problem comes in that they define "lower income" as less than $21k per
year. At incomes higher than that, it becomes SIGNIFICANTLY easier for the
employer to define the employee as exempt, making them ineligible for OT.
The goal of the regulation is to create an official class of $25k/year
"managers"....

 

No overtime for people earning more than $21k? bloody disgraceful!
Work in the UK, $100k AND overtime pay AND time off, if more than 7 hours
worked overtime.
Well I WAS dreaming, lol
But on a serious note, if they require that you work overtime, ask them,
what hours overtime they would expect you to do each week and get that added
to your salary. No extra cash, no overtime, PERIOD. If they think a lot of
you, they will pay, if they don't, then it's time to move on!

 

First - you ought to change your identity on this newsgroup. There has been
a 'matt' (lower case 'm') active here for years, and it would be a much
appreciated courtesy to those of us who are old and inflexible if we only
had to keep track of one. I dig the name 'mroyalty'... why not go with
that?

Now, onto the money thing. Yeah, it sort of sucks to have to work an extra
18 man-days over the year (by my calculations of 3hrs a week overtime minus
the 4 work weeks we typically get off in the states after 2 weeks of
vacation and ten paid holidays). But, on the flip side, its nice to be on
salary because you get paid when you are sick, on holidays, and when you are
on vacation. And if you want to move on in the world, you have to go
through this step.

What is left to you is negotiation. All salaries are in flux - they are an
agreement between an employer and employee, and that agreement can change.
You have a strong case in that you are taking a pay cut to get this
'promotion'. They have to sell you on the benefit of it, or you can decline
or go elsewhere. If you have a good vibe about the company being worth the
bother and have the guts to stand up (risking termination) you can insist on
some sort of pay raise, increase in benefits, or professional opportunity in
the near future to compensate you for the added responsibility. Comp time
(when things get slow) is a wonderful option that you can explore. Get
whatever you agree to in writing. It is actually appreciated (as long as
you are not a dick about it), and a sign of professionalism, because they
can also use it to hold you to your end of the bargain (be sure to stress
that part)

But I would recommend that you go easy on the extra three hours of work a
week after you make your case about the pay cut - if you make it a
continuing issue, they will then have an excuse to watch you like a hawk
during your work week to be sure you are up and running exactly at the
beginning of the day, super productive every minute of your shift, don't
take breaks to joke with the guys or take extra long craps, and don't leave
a second early for lunch or the end of the day. A 43 hour week is nothing -
45+ hours is the line where it starts to matter.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

I tried negotiating for better salary, but they are sticking by their
"guns". Their reason for the salary they offered is because it's the
going rate in this area for a Designer. HR said when I was hired in
as a Drafter/Designer, but with my experience I was getting a Designer
rate.

All salary employees are required to work 40 hours a week (min.), as I
have been told. And we do not get paid sick time, if we are off a day
for being sick we are required to make up the time or use a vacation
day. And if doesn't matter if the week prior you worked 50+ hours.
The way things are done around here are screwy, i.e. pay raises are
not based on performance and the person that does your performance
review can't increase or decrease the pay raise.

The only benefit to make this move is because they won't promote a
drafter/designer to an engineer. And I should be promoted to an
engineer after I get my degree, which will be in another year. I
won't get promoted until I have received that piece of paper, even
though I do exactly the same things as our engineers do and maybe
more.

I work in the New Product Development area, so during the brainstorm
and product research time I don't work more than 40 hours a week. But
after we decide on a design I work close to 60 hours a week working on
fine tuning the designs, testing designs, etc. And over the past few
years I've averaged about 150-160 hours of overtime.

Thanks again for you comments..

-Matt

PS - I've been on this board for about 3 years, so I'm not changing my
name. I've had to change it a few times because I have forgotten my
password though.

 

My mistake. I'll keep an eye out for the dash and capitalization to keep you
differentiated from Mr Lombard..

Sorry about the pay thing. Good luck with the promotion in a year.

 

If they can't figure out that performance and pay should be closely tied, I
would be looking for a better place to work. If they can't get the basics
right, how are they going to survive?

Once you have the degree, it shouldn't matter much what your previous job
title was. Maybe you should stick with the drafter/designer title till then.
On the other hand, if they are getting sticky about it, it's not good to
piss off your boss. But if they get sticky about stuff like this and can't
figure out the tie between performance and pay, I'd be looking elsewhere.

Welcome to the world of engineering, where credentials often count more than
achievement!

Welcome to the world of engineering!

Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems

 

'And we do not get paid sick time, if we are off a day
for being sick we are required to make up the time or use a vacation
day. And if doesn't matter if the week prior you worked 50+ hours.'

you're kidding right?
don't you people in the US have basic worker rights defined in law?
whets a union for?
why would you work for a company like this???

 

Lots of companies in the US have moved away from differentiating between
sick leave and vacation. This happened at Hewlett-Packard many years ago
when I worked there. At that time, I got two weeks of vacation and two weeks
of sick pay and I almost never used the latter. The company switched to
three weeks of flex time (combined vacation and sick time). I came out a
week ahead. The folks I knew who were always calling in sick on Friday or
Monday lost out. I think most people liked the new system.

Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems

 

Hi Matt.

Ideally, when one makes this transition, I have seen some compenstaion
in salary generally about 10-15% to "offset" overtime. This was
during good times.

If you will take this position, you should realize one good thing -
you have crossed out of the pool of "laborers" and are viewed as a
"professional". This is a minor distinction, but generally "laborers"
usually underearn "professionals" over their lifespan.

There are some up sides to this - "preofessionals" get some control
over their time allocation. In my experience, an "salary" employee
will be able to leave early one day without loss of pay, an "hourly"
will not be allowed to do that. A salary person will generally get
better opportunities in an organisation.

Also, the president of your company is most likely a salary employee
who works "uncompensated overtime" so to speak and probably earns a
good living this way. You are moving in the right direction.

But if the company has made you salaried and reduced your effective
earnings, then they have made a mistake. If the job market were
strong, and you were not happy, the remedy would be easy, but alas . .
..

Regards,

SMA

 

Things must be bad in the good old USA!

Two weeks vacation a year?
In good old blighty, it's fives weeks a year

Two weeks paid sick leave?
Six weeks here
If it is a long term sick leave, you can get up to six months paid,
depending on the company( mine pays)

And all this is without a union in sight!

 

The US has lagged behind most of Europe in workers' rights and benefits
for decades. But (generally speaking) it shows in our economy that we
work (as an average) substantially more than most European workers.
Which would you prefer? Honestly it really should be a matter of
preference -- but speaking in terms of economics over the last half
century or so, about the only way you can have a more reliably robust
economy and high potential for great personal wealth is to move to the
US. And about the only way we can have better benefits is to move to
Europe. I'm not saying that's the way it should be. I'm saying that's
the way it apparently is, and that one reason it's that way is that
there is at least some correlation to average hours worked.

'Spork'