CAM..?

I know that could start a long thread but here go's.
Ok company is considering a CAM package to work with SW.

What's being used out here? Good points, bad points. ETc..
Primary use will be two HAAS VF series Machining centers. Looking at a HAAS
lathe in a year or so..

jb..

 

I use Camworks and it is pretty good unless you want good high speed
machining capabilities. I also recommend a system that runs seperate
from solidworks if you are going to process huge 3 axis profile
finishing programs. That way you can still draw in SolidWorks. If not
then a lot of the packages are going to be great. Camworks 2D and
threading capability are excellent.

 

"I was very impressed with TopSolid's ability to import geometry."

TopSolid is a product respected by the VX AE I have worked with. I
wonder how good the documentation is for TopSolid? TopSolid seems to
have a decent presence in the mid-west. They have no presense in
Phoenix, Arizona that I can tell. Then again neither does VX.

jon

 

Perhaps he should sell their product then <G>.

 

I use Teksoft Camworks, and I love it. Learning curve was a bit steep,
but once you get over that it's very fast to get parts made. Their
"extract machinable features" command is amazing...you can literally
have a part programmed in seconds. Good points are that it runs right
inside SolidWorks, has a configurable database for how you like to
machine things, and it's cheaper than many of the "complete" CAM
systems since you don't have to pay for a solid modeler front end (and
you don't have to LEARN their modeler). Telephone support is
excellent, too. Downside was a lack of 4th-axis capability, but
they've just solved this in their latest release. I looked at Esprit,
Mastercam, SolidCam, Surfcam and several others, but went with Teksoft.

Good luck!
Mark Serbu
Serbu Firearms, Inc.
www.serbu.com

 

For SolidWorks users, there are a few things that come up frequently.
You've already heard of CAMWorks, which is ok if what you do is fairly
predictable 2 1/2 axis stuff. It does feature recognition, and is a bit
quirky, and doesn't really give you a lot of control. It also runs
inside SW, so you're tying up a seat of SW whenever you're doing CAM.

Another integrated option is SolidCAM, which has some strengths and
drawbacks. As I understand it, for the simple stuff, SolidCAM is
actually not very friendly, but for surface cutting it's fairly
automatic. Again, I've never used this one, just what I've heard.

I work with some guys who use FeatureCAM. It also does feature
recognition for really easy 2 1/2 axis, and it's stand alone (not
integrated into the CAD package, which I think is a benefit). You can
download a trial. It's really easy to use, kind of a wizard interface,
and gives you a fair amount of control. One of the great things about
this package is that if you need to upgrade to something with good 5
axis, FeatureCAM has recently been bought by Delcam, which is top shelf.

I know a lot of people who use other packages like Esprit and MasterCAM.
Esprit is fairly powerful, but I hear a lot of complaints about it for
whatever reason. MasterCAM is kind of like the Autocad of CAM,
everybody seems to have it, but last I looked into it, it lacked some of
the nicer feature recognition function to do simple work very quickly.

I don't have a vested interest in any of these, but in my work I tend to
run across a lot of different companies and need to be able to interface
with their CAM systems. It's just like anything, I guess, what's best
for you depends mainly on what kind of work you're doing and what kind
of control you need. As always, automation always comes at the cost of
control and flexibility.

Good luck,

Matt

 

If you ask 'Matt the Netcop Lombard' when was the last time he actually
used any of the CAM applications he mentioned above, and when the last time
he actually programed a CNC machine was, you'll quickly find his credibility
on the subject is a big fat goose egg. That is "zero". As in none.

"Mastercam is kind of like the Autocad of CAM"

?!

LOL!

That has to be the stupidest damn thing I've ever read in this newsgroup
since not long after it was created.

 

plonk

 

So do you mean he is not credible because he implied he never
programmed a CNC and has actually done so; or do you mean he has
actually programmed CNC and has implied he hasn't?

Anyway, we use MasterCam for the Haas Lathe and Mill.

 

Somebody who doesn't have any experience using CAM software or
programming CNC machines isn't in a position to be offering opinions on
such matters.

We use Cimatron and Mastercam to program 1 Roku-Roku high speed mill, 7
Fadal VMC's, 1 Sharnoa VMC, 1 Kuraki VMC, and 1 Kuraki horizontal boring
mill. The DeVlieg HBM and Mori Seiki lathe are programed manually at their
controls, as is the Charmilles wire EDM.

We use Solidworks, Mechanical Desktop and Pro Engineer for most design
work. Occasionally molds are designed in Cimatron and Mastercam right on
the shop floor. Our injection mold building capacity is anything that
weighs under 20 tons.

When looking at CAM software, you should be looking at what best suits
your *MACHINING* needs. Looking at what works best with ThisCAD or
ThatWorks is utterly ridiculous. With as good as data translators are
today, that is a totally moot issue. And, if you're that concerned about
CAD and CAM software working together, you should be looking at the
integrated manufacturing solutions such as Pro Manufacture or Unigraphics
instead.

 

Once again, I didn't really see Matt offering any opinions of his own,
just "What he had heard." That is fair enough. A list of software and
the source of his opinions is all he seemed to be saying. A sensible
reader would have a look at all the software mentioned in this thread
and demo it before making a decision.

Your point is well taken that the CAD and CAM package don't have to be
tightly integrated to work well together. I think you and Matt both
lean towards CAM independence from CAD. As a general rule I also take
that position with any special purpose software that processes CAD
geometry.

 

Matt,

With all this "CAM knowledge" you say you have, is there some reason
you have never posted anything machining related in alt.machines.cnc ?

Seems kind of strange to me after all these years.

What is also very strange is your lack of criticism of SaladWorks
because SaladWorks does such a poor job with handling non-native
imported geometry. Please read the following link. I believe you and
many others in this newsgroup can gain some valuable insight from the
subject of this white paper.

http://www.kubotekusa.com/images/pdf/2005_04_Geometry_Based_Manufacturing.pdf

The person how wrote the above white paper has a rather credible track
record:

http://aecnews.com/news/2005/04/04/1005.aspx

I believe Nocturnal Dragon raises some interesting points in regards to
your post. I'm looking forward to seeing you address the issues
Nocturnal Dragon raised as well as the issue raised in the above link
that you have *never* addressed.


jon

 

There is no reason in the world that CAD and CAM should not
be together as one. It is only a matter of time before this
is the norm with just about every software solution.

Any idea who CNC Software just hired and what he is known
for ?

Any idea where Pathtrace is headed with EdgeCAM and the
source code license they purchased from the person CNC
Software just hired ?

Based on your posts I take it your not aware of what is
really happening in the industry because I never see
comments from you on this subject and what I do see
is dated.

IMO, it's only a matter of time before GSSL's Teksoft / CAMWorks
becomes part of SolidWorks Corp.

GSSL's purchase of CAMWorks speaks volumes.

VX controls their own CAM, UG has their own CAM, Pro/E has
their own CAM. Cimatron has a decent hybrid modeler
and controls their own CAD, TopSolid probably has a decent
hybrid modeler and controls their own CAM.

Isn't it about time that people here recognize that CAD and
CAM really are inseparable ?

If you can't model it, you can't machine it.

If you can't work with imported non-native geometry you have
an incomplete ill conceived product... which is exactly what
SaladWorks, SolidEdge, Inventor, Alibre, etc. are.

http://www.kubotekusa.com/images/pdf/2005_04_Geometry_Based_Manufacturing.pdf


jon

 

Mark if you had to work with non-native imported geometry and make
changes to it quickly then I doubt you would be as happy as you are
now. FeatureWorks is slow and does not always work well. It's a good
tool but it should not be one's only tool. The following link explains
the problem.

http://www.kubotekusa.com/images/pdf/2005_04_Geometry_Based_Manufacturing.pdf

jon

 

Poor clueless (and a few others) claim that they can program
at the machine using MDI a lot faster.
No need for any CAM or CAD/CAM systems .....but then I wonder
why clueless posts all the ads for them.

 

Your statement (above) indicates your total lack of clues again.
And reading comprehension impairments on these subjects.

Oops, I forgot ..... It's all just buzzwords to you ......

 

Both firms long ago got it into the trade schools
for almost free to the students & schools.
This created a large pool of entry-level users
(and probably some above that) that want to use
it in their new jobs ......

Quite simple, really.

 

Works a lot better if it's all one CAD/CAM system.
IF your product is just bits of paper with dimensions
& notes for someone else to try to recreate 3D
geometry & parts from ....

 

Idiot.
That's how it STARTED, mostly.

 

Jb, I think you should look at 3 packages and see what fits the following:
1) your skill level doing machining period, i mean if you have never even
done conversational you will want something that is easy to understand
ect...
2) What type of machining will you be doing the majority of the time 2d ,
2.5 d , 3 axis , 4 axis , 5 axis ect.. Each software has its strengths for
all these some better than others.
3) How good is it bringing in outside CAD data IGES, STEP, ACIS,
PARASOLID, ect.. you never know when you will need to machine this type of
data.
4) Is their associativity with the model from SW to CAM.
5) Nothing substitutes trying the packages and seeing what works best
and gives you the best results (real world). Cut some renwood with each its
cheap and fast to machine and see how they handle the quality of the
surfaces, radius ect... Do the same part for all and make sure it has all
the features you would want to machine in your process (product you make).
The following is my opinion and take it for what it is, MasterCam is a
good all around package but not as easy to pick up as others. It is what I
would say a true machine shop should look at first. GibbsCam , easy to
pickup and does a pretty good job on mold work and is fast on toolpaths.
Featureworks i found to be slow but that was 2 years ago so it may have
changed. I have used the above packages before, we ended up going with Gibbs
and have been happy with it, no matter what you choose it will not do
everything great, you just want something that does a good job all around.