Why do some AcadArc entities have a startangle and endangle but not startpoint and endpoint? Startangle and Endangle are recognized as valid properties of the problem arc. Try to check Startpoint or Endpoint and I get "run-time error '451' Property let procedure not defined and property get procedure did not return an object". If I check with lbound(arc.startpoint) it returns 0 and ubound(arc.startpoint) returns 2. Yet every attempt to access arc.startpoint(0) gives me the error. thanks LJB