3M double-sided tape

I've used tape before to hold stock to a fixturing plate, so I know this method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technical specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base holding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometimes half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M sells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we breathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the products we buy.

David Janes

 

I don't believe it- you're dreaming

 

I don't believe it- you're dreaming


Hey, maybe. I'm probably dreaming that I worked for years as a model maker at Motorola, too. That model shop SEEMED pretty real!!

David Janes

 

Can you call 3M ?
They should be able to get your number, pretty quick!

 

I don't use the 3M stuff. I use Permacel P-02. Works fine under coolant if
the immersion times aren't too long, but you also need to check with your
coolant and your concentration - some have more "solvent" power than others.
Also need sufficient area to tape down (small parts can fly). Large areas
can be very difficult to remove if completely coated with tape. Alcohol
generally loosens the tape's grip.

P-02 can be had at KR anderson and a number of other places.

http://www.kranderson.com/shop/Permacel/PCP02-IN8/PERMACEL-P-02-1-INCH-X-36-YDS

http://www.findtape.com/shop/product.aspx?id=190&setscreen=1&width=1428&height=930

--moi

 

442KW 6312 - 0085 OPR#042 - that's the number on a couple of rolls of 3M
double-sided tape bought from McMaster-Carr.

I don't believe it- you're dreaming

 

Can you call 3M ?
They should be able to get your number, pretty quick!
I'm going that route, as well. Finally got past the sales order people, got to "technical support", presented my case and got some suggestions. They're sending some samples. Which means I really won't know anything until I set up some tests, blah, blah, blah. And one of the PMs asks me, once again, what's the hold up and I have to explain that I'm learning NC g-code programming and I'm calibrating a replacement stylus for the one I busted on the new Renishaw OMP-2 probe and I'm testing tape and his eyes are glazing over while he's mumbling something about finding an outside vendor... Well, I'll continue down that route, but only because I don't know the part number of the tape I should be using.

David Janes

 

David,
worked as a Model Maker for years at a competitor of Motorola.
Any way I used a 2" wide double sided tape from 3M. looked at the roll but there is no part number on it. Used it when making aluminum flat pattens for sheet metal parts. Dam stuff stuck so good you couldn't get the parts off the table if you used too much.

Well, I guess Motorola's tribulations gave you a good laugh. BTW, the Motorola Cellular model shop in Libertyville & Harvard IL were both closed. Everything's being outsourced. And, yes, we used 1" and 2" wide tape, fullest coverage for smallest parts, least for plates with a large surface area, often three 1 inch strips at most. And, yes, contrary to the beliefs of some sceptics, it was often difficult to remove parts. When they didn't pry off with a putty knife, we stuck stuff in a parts washer for several hours to loosen the bond.

David Janes

 

442KW 6312 - 0085 OPR#042 - that's the number on a couple of rolls of 3M
double-sided tape bought from McMaster-Carr.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

David Janes

 

For another use I found their tapes with
the Acrylic adhesives best.

 

Looked on the INSIDE of the roll?

 

David Janes, the Pro/E guru. Fancy seeing you here at AMC.

I've started using something called Mitee-Grip, which is a heat
activated adhesive film. You heat your part when you're done to pull
it off. I've even used it in limited production of parts with low
surface area without too much problem.

I also like super glue. It is strong and stiff, but when you get under
it with a chisel if pops off clean. I use a piece of high density REN
(5169) that is bolted to the table and given a skim cut. The glue
usually sticks to it better than the metal or plastic part, so the
part usually pops off clean. Then I just face it again for the next
part. I've milled everything from PVC to stainless steel this way.

I'm no eggspurt, just my .02...

 

I got something like that from McMaster-Carr. I didn't try it but my
co-worker didn't like it for some reason. We usually heat an aluminum
plate and apply hot-melt glue stick to it then weigh down the part until
cool.
RR

 

sorry, but I can't imagine how you would negotiate all the problems
machining with tape to hold your part;

 

sorry, but I can't imagine how you would negotiate all the problems
machining with tape to hold your part;


What problems would those be? Have you ever tried it? Maybe you need to
stretch your imagination a bit...

Certainly it's not for production runs of a lot of parts, the time involved
in taping and untaping would be too long. But for prototypes or short runs
of certain kinds of parts, it can be the only reasonable alternative to long
fixturing times.

I have machined all kinds of parts with tape over the years, aluminum,
plastics, wood... I agree a good baseplate is important, I used solid
acrylic bases for machining aluminum and acrylic parts, REN for most other
things. It's important that you squeeze down the parts to get max adhesion,
I have some t-slot clamps that work well. Another thing to do (if you can)
is to drill holes and put pins in the base that absorb the side force on the
part while machining. The tape then just has to resist the vertical pull-up
forces. When you're done, blow off the extra liquid and then douse the part
with alcohol. Wait a few minutes and start prying it up with a short bladed
putty knife...

--moi

 

That's what I liked about the 3M Acrylic adhesive &
was why we used it.
It mostly comes off clean with the tape. Cleaning
up after other stuff cost a lot of time & $$.
And it seemed mostly unimpacted by Styrene vapors
in our use.

 

I got something like that from McMaster-Carr. I didn't try it but my
co-worker didn't like it for some reason. We usually heat an aluminum
plate and apply hot-melt glue stick to it then weigh down the part until
cool.
RR

Interesting, sounds like a Home Depot solution. Do you get the part off the same way, with heat?

David Janes

 

What hath that to do with the shearing loads?
And PLEASE use a shorter line length !!!!

 

Oh yeah man. Tape is great compared to just using a vacuum. And we
machined hundreds of thousands of pounds of plastic last year using
nothing but vacuum to hold it down. No edge pins or anything. And
that's *feeding* at 1,800 IPM... Its all about the surface area, the
height of the part, and avoiding cuts that lift the part.

 

Setting up a model shop, hell, I wish I was saddled with such a
"bummer" project. I've never used an Oi-MC, but I've had good luck
with an O-M C just using a default Pro/E post, #12 I think...

This says heat on an electric hot plate or griddle. How do you heat
yours? The safety committee would probably be less concerned with a
heat gun than a hot plate."

I clean both parts, roll out some of the sheet and sandwich it between
my material and the REN, I then heat the material with a propane torch
(moving quickly) until the adhesive melts (under 200F) then I set a
weight on it until it cools. Your safety committee probably wouldn't
like that too much...

The ability to remove something thin without bending it is nice. Down
sides are the goop is too thick for extremely tight thickness control
in Z, the bond strength isn't that high, and it can leave a residue
that needs to be removed (don't try to remove it in a tumbler, mucks
up the media).

When using an aluminum sacrificial table surface I clean the part with
a coolant damp towel, and I clean the fixture with acetone. The glue
stays on the fixture, the part usually stays clean. When using REN, I
skim it dry and blow it off with air. Again, the glue favors the fresh
REN.