I draw 3D bent tube (or pipe) drawings and find that AutoCAD 2004 is lacking several tools to make this job easier. I have viewed most of the posts in regards to converting continuous 3d plines and arcs to 2D. I have not found a routine to flatten 3d to 2d and still have the object remain continuous, so that I can offset the line to create a two line object (pipe or tube). Is there a "flatten" routine to accomplish this? I've tried several of the lisp routines in the postings. I can't even find a routine to join continuous 3D arcs and line segments. I need to do this to be able to extrude the object, also be able to list the object to get a true length. I found that the 3DPedit routines do not work. Is it that difficult to join continuous 3D arcs and line segments to create one entity? If there are any piping or tube bending people out there, I'd be curious to know how you handle these tasks. Thanks for your reply.